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To: donmeaker; Jeff Head
The F-35 has comparable penetration capabilities, with much lower operating costs and heavier bomb loads. I don't think anyone will miss the F-117.

See above. Numbers count. And as far as the F-35, it is too short-ranged. So back to that again. It is way shorter distance range than the F-22. Particularly carrying heavy ordnance.

The Naval UCAS will be coming along,

Says you. It won't provide the air superiority. Nor will the F-35. The supersonic ship-attack missiles will be launched outside their range. Hence, we need the navalized F-22. This was the capability that the F-14/Phoenix gave us before...that is now retired without any replacement capability as the Threat Gathers.

and the AF will have the option of picking a few up.

Sigh. Dream on. The engineers at Boeing and Lockheed say flat out...don't bank on the UCAVs. They aren't supersonic. They aren't reliable in all weather. They aren't autonomous. They can be neutralized by a determined enemy with numbers of low-tech fighters, willing to use EMP devices. The UCAVs on CAP will drop like flies. And BEFORE you put up the argument that the F-22 is equally vulnerable to such a drastic attack...it has a couple more things going for it. It can be safely out of range of tactical EMP devices...and with supercruise swoop in on enemy bogies or supersonic cruise missiles. And unlike the UCAVs, after exhaustion of the payload bay of missiles, it can field its gun against the swarm of low-tech fighters that might follow in waves after the precursor attack...

The UCAVs..even with a gun pod... would be too slow to engage at the speeds typical of a Mig 21...let alone the Su-33s and Mig 29s.

And the next generation, is to water the eyes...

There is no next generation since we aren't even willing to fund the generation that we should be having right now. And btw, you go to war with what you have now. Not pie in the sky. This was the major mistakes of both Cheney and Rumsfeld. The Perfect becoming the enemy of the Good.

We also need to put back into practice the sage observations of President Thomas Jefferson, who said:

We confide in our strength without boasting of it; and we respect that of our enemies without fearing it.
Thomas Jefferson, 1793.

The attached incident should also prove a somber reminder of the perils of our smugness...and not just generally...but to wit, China:

Chinese Submarine Successfully Stalks U.S. Carrier Force Undetected

65 posted on 11/13/2006 9:18:47 AM PST by Paul Ross (We cannot be for lawful ordinances and for an alien conspiracy at one and the same moment.-Cicero)
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To: Paul Ross

Navalized F-22 won't hunt. Too big for the carrier deck.

There is a 30 character equation on aircraft spotting factor. F-18c counts as "1.0". F-22 is about 2.4 on that scale.


66 posted on 11/13/2006 4:33:02 PM PST by donmeaker (If the sky don't say "Surrender Dorothy!" then my ex wife is out of town.)
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To: Paul Ross

Do you know what the range of the F-117 is/was?

Gosh, do a little homework....


73 posted on 11/13/2006 6:18:21 PM PST by donmeaker (If the sky don't say "Surrender Dorothy!" then my ex wife is out of town.)
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