Posted on 11/02/2006 8:26:18 AM PST by Dominic Harr
In a month of fighting on Iwo Jima, we had over 6,000 dead, 25,000 wounded.
And that was a victory.
And now, many Americans consider 2,500 dead/20,000 wounded over several years to be a loss!?
The only hope for victory the enemy has is American public opinion. We've won all the battles. We kill more of them than they kill of us. We hold most of the territory.
Yet I even see Rs calling this a 'failed' war, and suggesting we can't win.
You are correct
Nah, I'd feel unloved if no one flamed me!
Altho I do prefer flames to be funny . . .
Did you see the analysis in post 101?
My day off has been *interesting* to say the least!
armymarinemom, it is pointless responding to this person's thread.
By his own admission, he uses a loaded term as an "attention getting" device, and is more interested in how many bumps he can generate on a thread, as opposed to actual meaningful discussion of an issue.
That is the main trick here in this war. It's an interesting, dangerous problem. But militarily, it never once threatens a 'victory' on the battlefield.
It's a little more than an "interesting, dangerous problem." It is the definition of military aimlessness.
And it is coupled with another "dangerous" element -- the lack of a definable "battlefield."
And if you don't know for certain who the enemy is or where the battlefield is, by what measure are you gauging "victory on the battlefield?"
On the other hand, Paris Hilton.
Sorry - didn't see your response when I posted this...
Well said.
"The flaming of Dominic Harr"
Sounds either like a recipe from the Food Channel or an Irving Stone novel;)
But thanks, I was just trying to get the discussion back to his basic point, that is the Cut and Run Crowd will continue to tally the latest casualties as 'evidence' that the war is un-winnable, and that unfortunately their voices come through loud and clear too often on the Tokyo Rose channels of ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, etc.
Yes, it certainly has. Afterall, it was your headline that made me click on it in the first place. I'm glad I read the body of your post though or I may have ended up being one of those who went off on ya over those two words, "cake walk". :)
Firstly, we lost about 58,000 in Nam, while killing 2,000,000. It wasn't a cake walk. We had over a 30-1 kill ratio. That is not what wins guerilla wars. Nobody serious doubts that our military can kick the snot out of tanks, airplanes, vehicles, armies dug into position. The question is if fighting against people dressed in civilian clothing, working at a fruit stand during the day, hiding IED's at night is as winnable.
I think he is quite fortunate to get off so easy.
I was down at Walter Reed this past summer with the Washington DC chapter of Free Republic, and I doubt that a single person outside on the sidewalk or inside in the beds would agree with this jerkoff's characterization of combat in the Middle East as a "Cake Walk".
If any combat veteran wants to make that characterization, it is their right that they earned to voice it. They may be right or wrong, but they can say it without fear of being called on the carpet for it.
If some guy who hasn't had an angry bullet at him in his life wants to make that characterization, he better be able to offer some real world experience to back it up, because those people who HAVE done it ARE going to take exception.
I would love to see him make this claim on the sidewalk outside Walter Reed, when the soldiers stop by to chat with the Freepers out there.
The other thing that has changed is our advancements in armor, and medical technology. Those heroes at Walter Reed missing arms, legs, the ability to walk are alive because of advances in armor and medical tech.
Our casualty count would be doubled with Vietnam or WWII era technologies. So comparing death counts is really apples and oranges. Most wounds suffered in Vietnam and WWII were not instantly fatal. The numbers would have been much lower if we had what we have now. The folks who have had their bodies blown apart and are alive now are lucky, but they have not had a cake walk. They are our heroes, and I think it cheapens their sacrifice to suggest that living in constant alert that every scrap of trash is an IED is not Club Med.
LOL! Yes, it does sound like a recipe. I also agree with the rest of your comment. I think people should use their anger to fight against our real enemies, not a fellow FReeper who obviously is on our side and also the side of our troops. :)
Our Government has the duty to protect us under the Constitution. If they fail to do so, we as citizens have the right and duty to protect ourselves through militias and changing our Government, by force if necessary. This was done once already.
GWs strategy of taking the fight to the enemy is correct. Logically, the terrorists will have the advantage of fighting on their turf. We have never been decived during the Congressional debates regarding the need to go to war. Any polititian who voted for this war and then changed their mind needs to be replaced. If we redeploy before the job is done (cut and run) the following will happen with almost certainty:
1. The mooslems will take full advantage of our Southern open border and infiltrate in large numbers. Since our leaders have failed to close the borders, there is no way of knowing how many OTMs (Other Than Mexicans) have entered the USA illegally. My guess is between 50,000 and 100,000 over the last 5 years. It isn't that difficult to get across.
2. We will be fighting on our turf. When this happens, you can kiss our economy goodbye. We, common citizens, will have to arm ourselves and start militias to do the job our Government has failed. I just got through re-reading the Constitution. If you think the detention camps for the Japanese was a task, just wait until we start rounding up mooslems.
3. When our economy comes to a halt, the world economy will follow. Without the tax base and already 9Tr Government debt, it will be difficult to fund the current programs (Soc. Sec, Medicare, etc.). At this point, the middle class will cease to exist since jobs will be scarce.
4. 2,500 in KIA will be nothing compared to the civil strife here in the USA. I try not to be a defeatist, but if you show your backside to mooslems, they will kick it mightly. History does repeat itself. Too bad our Government leaders don't have the IQ as our US Troops.
As I said, I do not disagree with the premise. I disagree with the usage of "Cake Walk".
You have the right to make that comparison dogbyte12, right or wrong, and would only have to answer to another combat vet.
I regard myself as a thoughtful and principled person (a conceit, I am willing to admit) and as such, I cannot and would not make the "cake walk" statement. Given his history, neither should Domenic Harr. That is what I have an issue with.
A current Limbaugh caller addresses this very point:
Paraphrasing, a new caller (Korean War vet) who said if the Democrats don't believe we can WIN in Iraq then exactly WHERE do the DEMS think we can win? Do the Dems think we can win on the shores of Florida or New York?
This is the issue - if the Cut and Run crowd wins seats in November 06 or 08, G*d help us.
I am a vet, but not a combat vet. I was in a light infantry batallion but got out of the service between wars actually.
But, alot of my buddies did go to Gulf War I, I got out right before Hussein invaded Kuwait. Back to my point though. It's all individual experience. For the person blown up, it sucks, for REMF's it can be kinda easy. I don't like cake walk because to me at least, it lessens the bravery of those who are there. It's not easy.
I think that the FReeper who posted this thread has made it perfectly clear that he was comparing past wars to Operation Iraqi Freedom when he used the term, "cake walk". I understood that clearly after reading beyond the title.
You seem to want to latch onto the title of the thread and use just those words to argue with, while refusing to acknowledge the content of the article which clearly puts the title into perspective. Of course, that is your right to do so.
However, even our son, who marched into Iraq on the very first day of this war, would understand and agree with what Dominic Harr's point is. We've had many conversations with our son about Operation Iraqi Freedom compared to past wars and dare I say we may have even used that old-fashioned phrase, "cake-walk" when using it for comparison purposes. Operation Iraqi Freedom was not a literal "cake-walk", no war is, but it sure was a "cake-walk" when compared to some other wars. I just don't see that this is so difficult to comprehend.
God bless our troops, past and present, for their service and their sacrifice!
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