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To: 3AngelaD
Won't they have to have PAID INTO Social Security first? And won't the infusion of Social Security money paid by workers now help the current system? And won't those who worked here illegally have to offer some proof that they worked here? And should they have proof that they worked here, won't that give the government evidence against those who employed them illegally?
6 posted on 10/25/2006 7:00:41 AM PDT by Miss Marple (Lord, please look over Mozart Lover's and Jemian's sons and keep them strong.)
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To: Miss Marple
Won't they have to have PAID INTO Social Security first?
For as little as 18 months in the US. The point of a "totalization" agreement is to count all monies paid into both countries' retirement systems as one account, paid into the country you are going to take the money out of. That works for countries like Sweden and Japan, but Mexico's system is radically different than ours.

And won't the infusion of Social Security money paid by workers now help the current system?
Short term it will prolong the Ponzi scheme and lessen the pressure for SS reform. But don't forget, anybody covered by SS also gets disability and family benefits. And the Mexican system is so unstable, being able to come into the US and use our system will be a huge draw for more illegals to come here. That means millions of people and billions in liability for SS that isn't even taken into account in the current deficit projections.

And won't those who worked here illegally have to offer some proof that they worked here? That is the most contentious part of this, as most illegals use fake or someone else's SS numbers. So if several folks claim they worked under 000-00-0000 (and there are several thousand workers currently putting money into the system under that number according to a GAO report) how do you figure out who's legit? Particularly when fraudlent documents is a huge money maker for several of the drug cartels, faking pay stubs won't be a problem (one cartel alone was earning $300 million a year in fake documents according to an informant. That was mostly driver's license and SS cards, but I'm sure they'll be happy to expand.)

And should they have proof that they worked here, won't that give the government evidence against those who employed them illegally?You'd think. But we have employers in a lose-lose situation: if employers challenge documents for being fake (like having 000-00-0000 as a SS#) employers are then open to EEOC prosecution. Read up on the Tyson prosecution, the judge and jury both found the immigration law was too complex for Tyson to be held accountable for breaking it -- and this was a company whose middle management actually hired coyotes to get illegals across the border. The only real solution to this is both to mandate use of the Basic Pilot Verification System by employers (to verifiy a persons SS#) and tamper proof, biometric SS cards. But that's going forward, you still have the problem of 50 people claiming they were paid under 000-00-0000 by the Burfle Corporation, Burfle only paid 20 people under that number, so how to you figure our who the 30 fakers are?

For a really good, non-emotional look at the problems with a Mexican totalization agreement, go look at this report. The Mexican system only covers about 40% of the population (US is 97%), does not give back more money than you pay in (arguably not a bad thing to start here, but is a huge incentive to get to the US to get into our system), and vests after 24 years (ours is 10).

17 posted on 10/25/2006 10:28:04 AM PDT by justanotherfreeper
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To: Miss Marple

To be elligible for Social Security, you have to have worked a number of qualifying quarters...for most it's 40, it used to be 13, which is curiously about the number that most people on SS now had to have worked....That wasn't a lot of working time if you ask me....I digress......What worries me is the one illegal that is young that becomes legal through whatever means, and then brings his whole damn extended family here (they can do this, and they do). For every elderly person in the family it's a trip to the SSA to see if whatever time they worked in Mexico is good nuff to qualify here...they're called reciprocal agreements and the US has them with a bunch of countries.... Voila, you got an old Mexican who is legal by virtue of his recently legal illegal status living of the fat of the land....ain't that nice?


22 posted on 10/25/2006 11:15:51 AM PDT by Gaffer
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