Germany jails homeschoolers

Catholic Standard Times ^ | October 2006 | Susan Brinkmann

[Fudd]

... the amount of tudor service you have to hire...to keep your kid on the smart track...will run around $1500 a year if you take this serious....and we are talking about a 13-year old kid requiring a tudor just to pass with decent grades

Wouldn't a windsor be less expensive than a tudor? :)

[mallardx]

Tudor? I hardly know 'er!

[pepsionice]

I had that dang spell-check on...for British English. It'll fail you everytime.

[kerryusama04]

They're all just bricks in the wall. Apparently books like Farenheit 451 are read longingly in some sectors.

[Rummenigge]

exactly...

weakening the anti-homeschooling legislation would be bending to islam.

I hope our weak governments remain firm at least in this point.

[sittnick]

Looking at the high number of muslim and other immigrants I can only hope we keep this law - otherwise we loose young muslims to the imam schools.

That means you believe that the state, not the parents are primarily responsible for the formation of children?! If you are preventing the best parents from educating their children properly because you fear the imams, you have already given up.

I am a home-schooling father of two, and would flee the country or face jail rather than let my children be minions of "compulsory" state education. Germany will lose its best people, but the immigrants will stay and because they believe in something, and the lefties believe in nothing, these immigrants will still believe in the instruction given them by the imams.

[Rummenigge]

I can draw jack sh&/ and I am a german PhD in chemistry. A bad mark in drawing and sports could only theoretically spoil your 'carreer'. In real life you get your D marks (necessary to pass to the next class) if you don't mop up.

Certainly to go to higher school your math and german better be good then.

[trashcanbred]

My wife works with a number of home schooled children every day. She said a number of them are very bright, sociable and very well behaved children. However...there are a number of them that cannot do the even the simplest math problems for their age and they have some serious social issues.

It seems when home schooling works, at least in this state, it works very well. But when it doesn't, the child seems really "left behind". I am not sure if there are standards set as to what the child must know and be tested on, but it doesn't seem to exist here.

[sittnick]

However...there are a number of them that cannot do the even the simplest math problems for their age and they have some serious social issues.

Such children exist in greater numbers in the public schools. In fact, the public school environment can exasperbate these problems. What do you mean about "social issues"? If it is rude or aggressive behavior, that would at least mean that the rest of the children aren't being influenced by it. If it means being considered a bit weird, well there are those in the public schools as well. Moreover, I would rather have a child with "social issues", if that means non-conformity with modern anti-culture, than for him to be trained into docile acceptance of all sorts of peer pressure.

[observer5]

Just remember after the Nazis fell, no judges were replaced, except very few.

[incredulous joe]

Actually, it's kind of interesting because we are homeschooling my youngest; when my wife and I first looked into homeschool a few years ago the overall mood was somewhat hostile to the idea. Now the feeling seems to be that the schools are happy to outsource the work.

They still get my tax money and there is one less child using the county's resources in the system. That would probably change if I were to get a tax-cut or voucher.

[LadyNavyVet]

How 'bout Germany stops importing Muslims rather than limiting the rights of German parents to rear their children as they see fit?

[trashcanbred]

Such children exist in greater numbers in the public schools. In fact, the public school environment can exasperbate these problems.

Maybe in the inner cities schools have such issues but around where I live the public schools are not "bad" at all. It would be inconceivable for a child to have those deficiencies in knowledge in the public schools around my area.

What do you mean about "social issues"? If it is rude or aggressive behavior, that would at least mean that the rest of the children aren't being influenced by it.

Without going into great detail, because it probably would not be appropriate for me to do so, "some" of the home schooled children have serious issues. I mean... something along the line of a "complete inability" to deal with other children (who also happen to be home schooled). There is nothing wrong with simply being "weird" (hey I was guilty as that as a child.

If it means being considered a bit weird, well there are those in the public schools as well. Moreover, I would rather have a child with "social issues", if that means non-conformity with modern anti-culture, than for him to be trained into docile acceptance of all sorts of peer pressure.

Why do you have a chip on your shoulder?? As I said in my last post many of the homeschoolers my wife deals with are very smart, well behaved and are great children. My point was that the "few" that seem left behind, well... they are really really REALLY left behind.

I don't have anything against home schooling at all. If anything it seems to produce some very smart children. I simply think there are "some" parents that do a very bad job of it and according to the parent, it is on purpose. Things like "math isn't important" type of attitudes. That kind of thing where they come right out and say that some of the basic tenets of any education just aren't deemed important enough to teach.

[American in Israel]

You can bet that Muslims will never be arrested for teaching their own children. Only Christians. The Nazi's like the Sand-Nazis, they ultimately see eye to eye.

[traviskicks]

Libertarian ping! To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here.

[little jeremiah]

Later pingout.

[little jeremiah]

I see you got this one first!

If people think this couldn't happen here, they're asleep. Fortunately there are many homeschoolers and they will keep informed about news.

[sittnick]

I mean... something along the line of a "complete inability" to deal with other children (who also happen to be home schooled). There is nothing wrong with simply being "weird" (hey I was guilty as that as a child.

Those types come along in public schools as well. I attended the 1970's version of a "good" public school, and those types were there.

Why do you have a chip on your shoulder?? . . . My point was that the "few" that seem left behind, well... they are really really REALLY left behind.

I do have a bit of a chip on my shoulder, because the standard for home schoolers is set so much higher than it is for the government school system. My fear is that this handful of non-social kids will be used as an excuse to monitor and regulate all.

I simply think there are "some" parents that do a very bad job of it and according to the parent, it is on purpose. Things like "math isn't important" type of attitudes. That kind of thing where they come right out and say that some of the basic tenets of any education just aren't deemed important enough to teach.

I do concede that such parents may exist (in some cases it might be because the child is going to be, literally, a truck driver like daddy, and that is not the worst thing in the world). I am certainly willing to risk having a parent responsible for a child's upbringing fail in individual areas (e.g. math) than risk the wholesale failure of entire demographic groups (inner city kids, social engineering classes, "new" math, whole language and look-say). A lot of kids got really really really left behind, as whole language and new math taught them not only to be disinterested in the subjects, but to hate them.

I do place the blame as much on modern parents as on modern teachers. The parents expect the schools to do everything for them.

You are right that homeschooling is not utopia, and it is not for everybody. I do not want the government deciding who it is and is not for.

[Vicomte13]

Isn't there also the option for religious schooling?

The policy in Germany, (quite) a bit more stringent than in France, seems to be that children must be institutionalized for schooling.

There are reasons for that which are not necessarily bad, having to do with socialization and exposure to a wide range of things; also standardization of curriculum and knowledge learned. In France, people have the option to teach their children (few take it), but what they teach is subject to curricular review. Basically, the national curriculum must be taught, because those are the basics to function in a social society. He who cannot read, write or compute cannot function in a modern state and will be a laisser-pour-compte burden on the welfare state. Ergo, every child must be educated to the basic standards. If parents want to do this, and add their own particular flavor of additional learning, it is acceptable in France.
Few do, because it is a royal pain in the ass, and the public school system is good and comprehensive.

But of course, in France, there are those who are deeply wedded to their religion (normally Catholicism), and who wish their children to be educated in an explicitly religious environment. Thus the religious schools, mostly Catholic. Now, they too must teach to the national curriculum (for the same reasons: these children must be competitive), but they also have prayers, devotionals and other religious learning. This is the choice of the parents, and in fact the teachers in religious schools in France are also paid out of the state budget (as is maintenance on most of the big Catholic cathedrals which are tourist centers - France is a secular state, but this does not mean that religious institutions are unregistered and unsupported. The Catholics have not the resources to keep the roofs on and the glass polished in Notre Dame and Chartres and Avignon and all of the other cathedrals. These are national treasures which the world flocks to see. It would be foolish for the state to not support this maintenance.)

Anyway, in Germany are there the options of religious schools, Catholic in the South; Lutheran in the North?

If so, why aren't these parents sending their children there, to avoid state system?