[Michigan Gov. Candidate] DeVos says he wants intelligent design taught in science classes

Michigan Live ^ | 20 September 2006 | Kathy Barks Hoffman

[PatrickHenry]

Republican gubernatorial candidate Dick DeVos says Michigan's science curriculum should include a discussion about intelligent design.

He says including intelligent design along with evolution would help students discern the facts among different theories.

"I would like to see the ideas of intelligent design — that many scientists are now suggesting is a very viable alternative theory — that that theory and others that would be considered credible would expose our students to more ideas, not less," DeVos told The Associated Press this week during an interview on education.

Intelligent design's proponents hold that living organisms are so complex they must have been created by a higher force rather than evolving from more primitive forms. Some want science teachers to teach that Darwin's theory of evolution is not a fact and has gaps.

However, a federal judge in December barred the school system in Dover, Pa., from teaching intelligent design alongside evolution in high school biology classes. The judge said that intelligent design is religion masquerading as science, and that teaching it alongside evolution violates the separation of church and state. [Kitzmiller et al. v Dover Area School District et al.]

Democratic Gov. Jennifer Granholm has said that Michigan schools need to teach the established theory of evolution in science classes and not include intelligent design, but can explore intelligent design in a current events or a comparative religions class.

The State Board of Education last week postponed adopting new science curriculum guidelines until state lawmakers get more time to weigh in on what the state's public schools science curriculum should be and how it should approach the teaching of evolution.

[cornelis]

Hi spunkets. I think your description is in the right direction. Scientists should recognize at the same time the all-too-common assumption that the laws of physics (or other laws) are exhaustive in their explanation of the universe and all interactions and phenomenon in it. This is called scientism and it has the same problem that all isms do.

[GregH]

' find it absurd that someone puts their faith in lies dressed up to look like science instead of putting their faith directly in their religion. I think people who choose to do that are weak in faith and easily taken in by the scam artists promoting ID.
'

Again repeating it, this is only a discussion about ID and not a call for it to be adapted in to the science curriculum. Only a fool imo is unable to distinguish the issue.

[PatrickHenry]

Here's an alternate theory that should be taught in math class.

Here's another: Time Cube.

[Dimensio]

The fossil record, no doubt, establishes the "science" of evolution ?

The fossil record establishes a lineage of organisms over time. The theory of evolution explains the patterns of the fossil record. It is possible for the fossil record to yeild an observation that disproves evolution, but thus far this has not happened. In fact, the fossil record has, thus far, been found to match predictions made by the theory of evolution.

The THEORY of evolution requires much more faith ("the substance of things hoped for") thhttp://www.freerepublic.com/perl/post?id=1705064%2C44#helpan the idea that things follow along on a logical (intelligent) basis. In my opinion.

You are free to have an opinion on the subject, but that does not change the fact that your claims are contrary to reality.

[teenyelliott]

Michigan is a majority Christian state and they can choose theories of discussion that involves Christian viewpoints if they wish, this is a democratic society where majority voters values shoild prevail.

There are so many ridiculous points in that sentence I'm not even going to bother with it.

[prov1813man]

"This is like teaching that the world is flat or that the sun orbits the earth. ID is a relic of the dark ages."

Actually, I thought the same about the religion of evolution. At what point will this "belief" be abandoned, and why is it held so dearly?

Finally, while there is no mention of religion or theology in the Bible, it's principles are the basis for human freedom. I do not see, frankly, how conservatives come to their core views (constitutional adherence) without faith in God. How else can "endowed by their Creator" be reconciled ? This is, again, in my opinion, the foundational premise "truth" from which all else in our system of government flows. Without this, laws are made by men, reconciled to nothing, and we are slaves.

Granted, uncharateristically long rant .

[Dimensio]

All he proposing is a discussion about ID theory.

This is impossible, as "ID" is not a theory.

As usual the atheists, liberal kooks are up in arms over this, overreacting as usual.

Please demonstrate that all who find the gubenoratorial candidate's suggestion to be objectionable are either liberals or atheists.

[atlaw]

it is only a discussion about ID

What would be discussed?

[Dolphy]

And FReepers agreeing with Jenny Grandholm. Never thought I'd see the day!

Yep, complete with the Amway bashing.

[Kirkwood]

"Again repeating it, this is only a discussion about ID and not a call for it to be adapted in to the science curriculum. Only a fool imo is unable to distinguish the issue."

Uh... Did you even bother to read the title of the topic? "DeVos says he wants intelligent design taught in science classes"

[teenyelliott]

do not see, frankly, how conservatives come to their core views (constitutional adherence) without faith in God.

And on this note, I will be leaving this thread before I get banned.

[Dimensio]

Those who do not want creationism taught in our schools are definitely AFRAID OF SOMETHING!

While your statement is correct, in that many who oppose creationism being taught in schools fear the resulting ignorance and scientific illiteracy that such a practice would encourage, it does not seem relevant to this discussion. The article discusses a suggestion that Intelligent Design be taught, not "creationism".

[jennyp]

"Now, children, please open up your notebooks - we're going to draw some circles..."

I think the geometric figure you're looking for is a pyramid :)

Now, Senator, that is just more of your atheist, skeptical lies! As anyone who has taken our Econ 101 class knows, the children are going to draw concentric groups of circles, with more groups connected to the first downline circles. It's an ever-expanding network, not a pyramid.

Geesh, how can you scoffers poison the well of debate like this? If it sounds too good to be true, you just don't have enough faith!!!

[GregH]

A discussion about the theory?

[Dimensio]

However, I see many holes in evolution that just don't make it absolute.

To what "holes" do you refer?

[youthgonewild]

Did DeVos forget to take his brain medicine? Does he have a side bet on a Granholm victory?

[retMD]

Those who do not want creationism taught in our schools are definitely AFRAID OF SOMETHING!

If they don't want creationism taught in science class (as opposed to philosophy or religion classes) I'd say they are afraid of bad science. And afraid of the future of this country when children grow up thinking science is negotiable, and scientific truth is what you want it to be, instead of theories that best fit the the facts.

[cornelis]

Perhaps you can enlighten us by telling us what attributes the Designer does have.

Causative attributes.

[GregH]

Did you read this 'Republican gubernatorial candidate Dick DeVos says Michigan's science curriculum should include a discussion about intelligent design. '. Its pretty clear that he wants a discussion and not a full adoptation of the ID theory as science.

[RippyO]

Evolution is not a religion. That argument is old and tired. Evolution is just a more scientifically rigorous proposition than ID.