Posted on 08/26/2006 10:22:51 PM PDT by jdm
A new policy by Internet trading behemoth eBay that bans homeschool teachers' texts from its auctions is prompting a tirade of complaints from the company's faithful customers.
"Really the homeschooling community is a huge participant in eBay when you get to thinking about it," said one customer who was identified as "Angelwings" on an eBay blog. "We buy textbooks naturally but we also purchase items like microscopes, slides, globes, maps, manipulatives, educational games, reading books, supplies for our classrooms … stickers, idea books, folders, sheet protectors, school supplies, software, educational movies, models, post cards … the list is enormous."
The policy, which is inclusive of all teachers' texts, was made known recently as those who were auctioning various books watched as their postings were deleted.
Another homeschooler on the blog said she questioned eBay when her listings were cancelled.
"They told me that it fell under their heading of 'illegal, dangerous, offensive, or potentially infringing,'" she said. "What are they thinking? I have a mess of curriculum here that I can't sell, and needing money from it to buy curriculum for the new school year."
The response from the company was posted for others to see.
"As you may know, eBay does not permit items that are illegal, dangerous, offensive, or potentially infringing. Additionally, eBay has just recently made the decision to prohibit the sale of Teacher's Editions of textbooks and solutions manuals that are intended solely for use by teachers. Since eBay strives to be a level-playing field, all Teacher's Edition textbooks, manuals and guides will be covered under this policy. Unfortunately, home schooling Teacher's Editions are not exempt from this policy and this policy will apply to all grade levels."
The company continued that those products often contain "special answer keys, exams, teaching tips, and guides."
And, it noted, "multiple organizations and publishers have voiced their concern to us over such books that may only be purchased through educational institutions by teachers."
"Where do they get off telling me that I don't have the right to buy, sell, or own a teacher's manual??? How could I teach my children without it???" another blogger asked.
Still another reported having a few 2006 teachers' edition textbooks for college classes pulled from the site.
"Now I'm stuck with them," the writer said.
"We are a major buying and selling force on eBay & once I got to thinking of all the things we purchase just for ourselves and our school it's amazing," said Angelwings. "I'm in the same boat as many of you….I've got three grade levels of books here I need to sell in order to purchase our supplies for next year."
WorldNetDaily did not get an immediate response from eBay about the situation. The website accepts e-mail questions but responds in 24-48 hours.
Its website explanation is straightforward.
"Teacher's editions of textbooks and solutions manuals that are intended solely for use by teachers are not permitted by eBay."
And it notifies users that "listing cancellation, forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings, limits on account privileges, account suspension" are all possible results.
"As a homeschooler I believe this directly discriminates against me since I have used Ebay numerous times to both buy and sell homeschool curricula. As a budget conscious homeschooling mother I like to buy used materials as often as possible. This means buying the teacher's materials used on Ebay and purchasing new workbooks directly from the publisher or distributor," Dana wrote.
eBay did offer a recourse for further concerns:
"We appreciate the fact that you may disagree with eBay's decision to establish this policy. If you would like to see these policies change, or have suggestions on how to make the site better, you may want to submit your feelings by completing the form at the following URL."
eBay's overview of prohibited items includes animals, artifacts, autographed items, academic software, bootleg recordings, credit cards, drugs and paraphernalia, government IDs, lockpicking devices, human remains, police-related items, used clothing and used cosmetics, among others.
One blogger noted that public school interests have been opposing homeschooling more and more, as homeschooling as grown substantially in recent years. Recent estimates have put homeschool attendance in the U.S. at more than 2.5 million. And the same comment noted book publishers also dislike having the products re-sold.
A public school teacher defended the policy, saying she cannot get a teacher's edition from a publisher unless she provides proof of her teaching employment. "It is quite costly for publishers to research and develop curricula and it is copyrighted."
But there also are other auctions that do allow the sale of homeschool texts. One location, which does require purchasers to be 18, is Schoolbookauction.com. Another one is Homeschoolbid.com and observers said there are many more available through an Internet search.
The Home School Legal Defense Association said it was aware of the situation.
"We have received many complaints about the eBay policy and we are actively working on a solution," Media Relations Director Ian Slatter told WND. That group is the largest organization of homeschoolers in the United States, with more than 80,000 member families.
[Ding! Ding! Ding! Winner! Anybody who figure out a way to undercut college textbook publishers by selling used items on a massive scale like amazon or half.com could make some serious $$$. Maybe even do sub-sections for campuses like cities on Craigslist.]
I agree, but it would also really help students/parents cut their college costs. The prices for some of these textbooks is outrageous. Monopolies almost always end up hurting the consumer.
My guess is the college textbook manufacturers (although it doesn't sound like it's the home school textbook manufacturers) are trying to snuff the sale of textbooks on eBay. More used texts sold=Fewer new texts sold.
Connie and I have been tossing the idea of creating a homeschoolers' auction house for a while now. We could do it much better and cheaper, for the buyers and sellers, than the rip off service ebay provides. Or no longer provides.
All scams are hit and miss. I talked to a powerseller on the powerseller BB that was hit for $10,000. One guy purposely did it to him.
Except in the case of the most detailed and careful seller, a buyer could get anything for free using credit card chargeback and PayPal's dispute system.
Scattershooting while wondering why publishers are always coming out with new, improved calculus/finite mathmatics texts.
And I have never been mugged or been a victim of a car jacking or identity theft. That does not mean there is not a risk. Just because it has not happended to you to not make it a legitimate point that there is not cause for concern.
There are more than enough horror stories going around to be concerned.
To demonstrate how vulnerable you are, how about you FReep mail me your ebay name and I will see if I can get into to you for some free merchandise?
Thanks for posting this story.
There is a very long thread on Ebay forum regarding this matter.
http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.jspa?threadID=2000081947&start=1320
There are two places that I know of where you can buy or sell the banned goods.
www.THISLITTLEPIGGYSTAYSHOME.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Teachers_Editions/
This policy was posted to the FR Homeschool 2006-2007.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1657398/posts
Good grief, I didn't say there was no risk.
AND, I don't get too ruffled by "enough horror stories going around" to change my methods of business. I also don't live in fear of muggings, carjackings or identity theft. I take appropriate precautions.
As I said, I am not that active on eBay anymore but that is only because of the cost involved. And, I would never give you my user name so you could "make a point". Geez
Well you don't have to get in a huff. We are all friends here. Just having a discussion with you.
On getting out of ebay because of the costs, would that be because Ebay, PayPal and whatever shipping company used make about twice as much on an order as you did? Sure was the situation in my case.
They kept changing their fee structure and it got to be so much work to keep up with what they were charging and how they kept trying to manipulate their take.
It was like a cat and mouse game trying to stay enough of a step of their fees to be able to make any kind of a profit whatsoever.
Sounds like we agree on that.
OK my friend.
Voiceinthewind--
Ping! I remember you talked about this on the FR Homeschoolers Forum...
Hmmm... Would this one count as homeschool-specific? I don't know... It's your call.
I didn't meant to be offensive in particular. I was hoping to point out a little inconsistency here in folks who treasure (and rightly so) the right to educate their kids the way they see fit while at the same time deriding a private business for exercising its right to refuse dealing with certain categories of merchandise, and strangely enough trying to turn it into some sort of "discrimination" case.
It doesn't take much imagination to understand why ebay doesn't wish to carry teachers' editions and test keys. Obviously the main worry is public and private school kids buying answers to their texts, thus ruining schools' investments in books AND opening ebay up to lawsuits with quite substantial proof of harm.
I love home schoolers. Many of my friends ARE home schoolers and a little ticked about ebay too, but they aren't running around threatening lawsuits. The true value of your child's education cannot be expressed in dollars, which is a good thing because raising and educating children is a financial pit under the best of circumstances. This is just a small bump in the road.
Let's get one thing clear right now. I do not care for the public school establishment AT ALL. That is why my kids go to private school.
I also realize I do not have the temperment to teach my own kids at home, but fully support anyone who has the ability and patience to do it.
Given the value of a good education, griping a bit over losing a few bucks on supplies when you should be hitting the ground every day thanking God you live where home schooling is possible strikes me as behavior similar to certain race baiters.
This is a temporary problem. Surely folks with enough initiative to educate their own kids can come up with another auction service. Ebay is not a right.
This is outrageous alright! I'm one of the few people around who doesn't buy/sell on e-bay, so this may be a stupid question. Are they the only site of this type on the internet? Aren't there other alternatives for these people to use?
Big jump between complaining about stupid business practices and race baiting...
My thoughts exactly...
If they're smart, a special category will emerge...
The past seven years I've used ebay only once for purchasing curriculum/teachers texts. I sell/buy on vegsource.com/homeschool and theswap.com. There are others but I've had the most success on the two listed.
amazon.com is another source I've used to sell/buy.
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