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To: brain bleeds red; Jet Jaguar; phs3; tentmaker; freedomfiter2; mkjessup; thestob; iThinkBig; ...
Are you aware of the fallacy in worshiping at the alter of Golytsin? I've noticed that a lot of posts seem based upon the works of Golytsin and the dupes he uses to proliferate his false prophecies. What is incredible is the fact that the Golytsin-ites (let's call them "Phoney Patriots") believe the following (not an all inclusive list):

1.) The collapse of the Soviet Union is a ruse: This means Ronald Reagan and the rest of the great men and women who carried out his plans to finish with the Soviet Union once and for all were just dupes and didn't really accomplish what they set out for.

2.) The communist bloc is just playing dead waiting to strike: Once again, a laughable charge. And when levied by people who include Ukrainians and Poles on their ping lists is even funnier. If you believe in Golytsin surely you would realize that the "Poles and Ukrainians" are all in on the Soviet plot..... (ridiculous, isn't it?)

3.) Golytsin is an honest broker serving the free world: Golytsin tells us that the KGB cannot be trusted. Wait a sec, that's a good statement, but WHO is Golytsin? A KGB agent. That's right. He's a KGB agent. But, wait, you say he defected so that means he's an honest broker - ok, but Golytsin tells you NOT to believe KGB defecters (except for him of course) because they are fake defecters and sent "to sully his reputation".. But, to believe that you'd have to, once again, believe Golytsin over loyal American officials who have determined otherwise. So, what you've actually done is place your faith in a "former" KGB agent over your fellow Americans.

And, btw, that means you believe a "former" KGB whose sole purpose in life seems to be making $$$ off of sullying the legacy of Ronald Reagan.

Can you imagine if Aldrich Ames had defected and then, after his usefulness to the KGB had run out, he made a living in Russia writing books about how the US's sole purpose in life was to enslave the Slavic world? You'd think that ANY Russian who believed such a man who betrayed his own country was an idiot - wouldn't you? Now think about Golytsin....
12 posted on 08/18/2006 11:10:54 AM PDT by GarySpFc (Jesus on Immigration, John 10:1)
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To: GarySpFc

Those are substantial arguments and I have to agree that they are effectively irrefutable.

An excellent counterpost.


13 posted on 08/18/2006 12:08:16 PM PDT by mkjessup (The Shah doesn't look so bad now, eh? But nooo, Jimmah said the Ayatollah was a 'godly' man.)
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To: GarySpFc
These are not irrefutable arguments at all, in fact you really don't address Golitsyn's theories at all. Let me address them for a second:
1.) The collapse of the Soviet Union is a ruse: This means Ronald Reagan and the rest of the great men and women who carried out his plans to finish with the Soviet Union once and for all were just dupes and didn't really accomplish what they set out for.

So Ronald Reagan could NEVER have been fooled? That's it? You're saying Reagan was infallible? I would say you underestimate your enemy, my friend.

2.) The communist bloc is just playing dead waiting to strike: Once again, a laughable charge. And when levied by people who include Ukrainians and Poles on their ping lists is even funnier. If you believe in Golytsin surely you would realize that the "Poles and Ukrainians" are all in on the Soviet plot..... (ridiculous, isn't it?)

You don't say why it's a laughable charge, so I'm assuming we're all supposed to know already or you just suck at providing evidence. But you misrepresent the argument. They are not "playing dead waiting to strike". Apparently you are not as well versed on Golitsyn as you claim to be, or you are intentionally spreading misinformation. Golitsyn's assertion was the groups like the European Union, NAFTA, and the like were to become regional blocs with the intent of eventually taking away the US's sovereignty.

3.) Golytsin is an honest broker serving the free world: Golytsin tells us that the KGB cannot be trusted. Wait a sec, that's a good statement, but WHO is Golytsin? A KGB agent. That's right. He's a KGB agent. But, wait, you say he defected so that means he's an honest broker - ok, but Golytsin tells you NOT to believe KGB defecters (except for him of course) because they are fake defecters and sent "to sully his reputation".. But, to believe that you'd have to, once again, believe Golytsin over loyal American officials who have determined otherwise. So, what you've actually done is place your faith in a "former" KGB agent over your fellow Americans.

Okay, so your argument here is NEVER trust ANYTHING Russians have to say if it CONTRADICTS anything Any American official says.
17 posted on 08/18/2006 1:17:53 PM PDT by brain bleeds red
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To: GarySpFc
These are not irrefutable arguments at all, in fact you really don't address Golitsyn's theories at all. Let me address them for a second:
1.) The collapse of the Soviet Union is a ruse: This means Ronald Reagan and the rest of the great men and women who carried out his plans to finish with the Soviet Union once and for all were just dupes and didn't really accomplish what they set out for.

So Ronald Reagan could NEVER have been fooled? That's it? You're saying Reagan was infallible? I would say you underestimate your enemy, my friend.

2.) The communist bloc is just playing dead waiting to strike: Once again, a laughable charge. And when levied by people who include Ukrainians and Poles on their ping lists is even funnier. If you believe in Golytsin surely you would realize that the "Poles and Ukrainians" are all in on the Soviet plot..... (ridiculous, isn't it?)

You don't say why it's a laughable charge, so I'm assuming we're all supposed to know already or you just suck at providing evidence. But you misrepresent the argument. They are not "playing dead waiting to strike". Apparently you are not as well versed on Golitsyn as you claim to be, or you are intentionally spreading misinformation. Golitsyn's assertion was the groups like the European Union, NAFTA, and the like were to become regional blocs with the intent of eventually taking away the US's sovereignty.

3.) Golytsin is an honest broker serving the free world: Golytsin tells us that the KGB cannot be trusted. Wait a sec, that's a good statement, but WHO is Golytsin? A KGB agent. That's right. He's a KGB agent. But, wait, you say he defected so that means he's an honest broker - ok, but Golytsin tells you NOT to believe KGB defecters (except for him of course) because they are fake defecters and sent "to sully his reputation".. But, to believe that you'd have to, once again, believe Golytsin over loyal American officials who have determined otherwise. So, what you've actually done is place your faith in a "former" KGB agent over your fellow Americans.

Okay, so your argument here is NEVER trust ANYTHING Russians have to say if it CONTRADICTS anything Any American official says.
18 posted on 08/18/2006 1:17:57 PM PDT by brain bleeds red
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To: GarySpFc

You don't need Golitsyn to see the threat that Putin poses to the West.


38 posted on 08/22/2006 9:32:52 AM PDT by Thunder90
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To: GarySpFc

Bravo...

Anatoliy Golitsyn is the great sage of the terminally paranoid. In their mind they got double, triples, quadruple agents and ...What comes after quadruples?


147 posted on 01/10/2007 4:40:39 PM PST by tomcorn
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