Can a good Muslim be a good American?

A friend who knows | 8/11/2006 | Agent Smith

[Agent Smith]

I ask my fellow freepers indulgence for this vanity, because I believe it is too important to be buried in the back of the forum.

Can a good Muslim be a good American? I sent that question to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years.

The following is his reply:

Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia.

Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)

Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).

Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan.

Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).

Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.

Therefore after much study and deliberation...perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both "good" Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish...it's still the truth. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future. The war is bigger than most Americans know or understand.

[Michael Goldsberry]

:P

[RichardW]

What do you think is likely to happen if Iran manages to get a nuclear device into the U.S. detonates and 1,000,000 or more Americans are incinerated. Do you honestly believe that the roving gangs in the streets will discriminate between "good" and "bad" Muslims?
First, if we know that the bomb came from Iran, it will cease to be a nation. There is no doubt that anger will be directed against Muslims, the question is how much. There was very little such activity iafter 9/11 or even after Pearl Harbor.

If that nuclear bomb is detonated then the whole of society breaks down. Israel is already on the threshhold of unloading its 200 nukes on Iran at the first sign that Iran gets the bomb. That was the conclusion of Ben Stein on Fox today. Israel will not permit a second Holocaust. We are getting very, very close to critical mass.

I doubt that the whole of society will breakdown in the US because one city is destroyed. We will maintain civil order and respond to the attack and win. We will be together as never before against a common enemy. The reaction of the American people after 9/11 was just a taste of what would happen.

It will be interesting to see if Israel would launch a first strike nuclear attack against Iran. I doubt it.

---

I think you need to rethink your whole approach to this problem. If a nuke destroyed a major American city and we had say a half million dead (which would probably be understated), how do you think such a calamity would be handled? Think about the sheer logistics of handling of the disposal of rotting human corpses everwhere. Where would they be put? You can't put them out to sea because they would float back in to land. You would have to burn them, like Galveston did in 1900. And then only 8,000 people died. It was a monumental disaster. Multiply that by a hundred times or so.

If anything I believe the problem would be even more serious than I have suggested. And I do believe it would result in a collapse of civilian government and a military takeover with martial law. That's probably the only thing that would save vast numbers of Muslims from being sought out and murdered by the thousands. The gangs of people seeking revenge would be enormous and they would pick the ones that stood out as probable Muslims. Remember what was said during our Indian wars. "The only good Indian is a dead Indian." When the American Indian was finally subdued in the 1890s it was through draconian methods and the social problems exists to the present time with the failed reservation system. And they were native born. Imagine what would happen to non-native born or "different" people with 500,000 dead Americans in the streets. It won't be a pretty sight.

I'm offering a way out of this possibility. Muslims should be repatriated back to their native lands while there is still time to do so. It's the safe bet.

[bondserv]

I know some MINO's as well. They don't practice Islam. Many Catholics could be lumped into the same type of category. They don't go to confession, believe in transubstantiation, attend Mass regularly... CINOS's. Often times the parents of these two groups are devout.

You will notice the British Muslims involved in the plot became "devout" Muslims. Unfortunately, in the case of Muslims, the level of devotion is proportional to a lack of rational thought (The religion of Liberalism does the same thing). Catholics do not suffer from this supernatural side effect.

Regarding your friends comments concerning: "Well, that's the way most Muslims feel about this silly Sharia law. We just ignore that part of the Koran, just as you Christians ignore the provisions of the Bible against usury and dietary laws."

Devout Christians do not ignore any of the Bible. By not ignoring parts of the Bible we do not believe we are beholden to many of the provisions God established to help the Jews survive long enough for the Messiah to come. When God told some Jews to divorce their unbelieving wives, He was trying to sustain their existence as a people, not contradict His righteous Laws. Once Jesus came, the age of Grace could begin. No longer will God command believers to slaughter races of people including the woman and children like He was forced to do because of mans sinfulness in the Old Testament.

Because the scripture shows us that God purposefully handled the Jews differently than post resurrection, we recognize that He has set aside many Old Testament provisions.

1Sa 15:18 And the LORD sent thee on a journey, and said, Go and utterly destroy the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed.

Psa 106:37-38
37 Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,
38 And shed innocent blood, [even] the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.

Act 11:6-9
6 Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.
8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.
9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, [that] call not thou common.

Mar 14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

[Abd al-Rahiim]

So, do Arab Christians and Arab Jews who use the term Allah also have it wrong? Is "God" the only acceptable name, even if it does not exist in all languages?

[Michael Goldsberry]

It's not the name that's important, it's who it refers to.

The Koran contradicts the Bible, therefore the Koran is false.

[Abd al-Rahiim]

Similarly, no "secular" Muslim can truthfully accuse a fundamentalist Muslim of "hijacking" Islam merely because the fundie follows Mohammod's precepts exactly

He can and has, successfully.

[Abd al-Rahiim]

The Koran contradicts the Bible, therefore the Koran is false.

That is superb logic. I commend you.

Rudeness aside,

Mr. Goldsberry, I'll stop if you can give me a direct yes/no answer.

Muslims use the word Allah. According to you, they 'think they have it right.' Which means you think they're wrong.

Arab Christians and Arab Jews also use the word Allah. Are they also wrong because they use the same word?

I'll stop with the semantics if you give me a straight yes or no answer.

[airborne]

It's not so much the name...Allah, God, Vishnu, whatever...We all have different names we refer to our Creator by.

It's what the teachings of our Creator asks us to do.

Only the Muslim "Allah" teaches to lie and kill, to treat women as property.

No matter how you argue your case, Mohammed is a fraud, and Islam is evil.

[Michael Goldsberry]

Yes/no answers...

Q. Do Muslims worship Allah?
A. Yes

Q. Is Allah the same God the Jews and Christians worship?
A. No

Q. Did the Baalis worship Baal?
A. Yes

Q. Was Baal the same God the Jews worshiped?
A. No

Q. Did the words Allah, Yweh, Baal all mean God to someone, somewhere?
A. Yes

Q. Did the words Allah, Yweh, Baal all refer to the same God?
A. No

[Covenantor]

Is this the posters name sake?

"Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, the suspected mastermind behind the October 2000 bombing of the USS Cole that killed 17 sailors, was arrested earlier this month, officials said. He is considered one of the highest ranking al Qaeda leaders captured in the international war on terrorism."

"He is of similar rank to two other captured al Qaeda operatives -- operations chief Abu Zubaydah and Ramzi Binalshibh, believed to be a main organizer of the September 11 attacks."

[Michael Goldsberry]

Guess I've got a fatwa out on me now...

[Abd al-Rahiim]

You have given me several yes/no answers, but you have not answered my question. Are Arab Christians and Arab Jews wrong because they use the word Allah, Arabic for God?

[Abd al-Rahiim]

I'd prefer you ask me, and my answer is no.

Even though I'm not Muslim, for a user name I made up an Arabic name. Until you mentioned him, I did not know who Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri was.

Abd means "servant of." al-Rahiim means "the Compassionate." So, "servant of the Compassionate."

[Abd al-Rahiim]

Let's see now.

I'm not a Muslim. That means I cannot be a mujtahid. And, since I'm not a mujtahid, I cannot issue a fatwa.

You can relax now...

[NRA2BFree]

Hurry them along to meet their 72 vergins.

Exactly! You KNOW that's what everyone else thinks too, but they're afraid to say it. LOL!! You put it in the right words. Sending those little Koranimals to paradise would actually be doing them a favor. That's what they all want. ;o)

[RouxStir]

"72 vergins"

Ooops, I had started to type "72 veegans" instead of virgins.

[Michael Goldsberry]

Are Arab Christians and Arab Jews wrong because they use the word Allah, Arabic for God?

If they say that Muslims worship Allah, no they are not wrong.

If they say Jews and Christians worship Allah, yes that is incorrect in my opinion.

[Lazamataz]

I'm not a Muslim.

Yes you are. It says it right where you post your name.

[Jason_b]

Off topic...

"just as you Christians ignore the provisions of the Bible against usury.."

click here!

[Michael Goldsberry]

Fatwa for you! LOL!