Posted on 08/11/2006 6:36:37 AM PDT by Agent Smith
Tell it to the chaplain.
Sure there will be the exception whereby a young muslim man will travel to Pakistan to join jihad, but I maintain it's the exception and not the rule.
The lack of economic opportunity serves as a breeding ground for jihadists. The problem is that mullahs, etc., preach that the evil Satan USA keeps them poor. They refuse to look inward as the reason for their stagnation.
When you're sitting in the Middle East with decades of war and death and poverty, it's easy to keep that lie alive. Not so in the USA.
Thus, there are many muslims living here in peace among us.
The ones that emigrate here with an agenda...self-deluded rambos...those are the enemy. Not the muslim families living next door.
"So what do you propose to do with the 4 to 6 million American muslims?"
Hurry them along to meet their 72 vergins.
Let’s be serious about this. I think that it is possible for a good Muslim to be a good American, but it is a matter of choice for him. Let’s go over those points again.
Theologically -yes. Allah may have been derived from the moon-good, but He is certainly not the moon-god in modern Islamic thinking. In the same way, the God of Israel is not any longer thought of as a tribal god, but as the universal God.
Religiously - Yes, because it is not necessary for your religion to be congruent with all others. Catholics think that Protestants are doomed to Hell, and some Protestants think that Catholics (and most people in general) are similarly doomed. Jesus himself strongly implied that most of his own followers would not make it in the end! We tolerate all sorts of strange beliefs within civil society. I am not sure that this is the best arrangement for an ideal society, but it is up to the adherents of a religion what they do with their beliefs. Buddhists are non-Christian, yet they seldom blow up people, or proudly videotape and exhibit gruesome murders of helpless captives. Islam is a problem because it stems from a barbarous culture, and has had trouble emerging. Many Moslems, however, are good people, and I have met some who badly wish to be good Americans. Some are very honorable and dignified people, better in their moral habits than many modern American youth. I am thinking of happy, fun-loving, hard-working students: just what we would like young Americans to be.
Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).
I’d say yes. Do you know what the five pillars are? There are the five pillars of observance, and the five pillars of belief. These are the core of Islam. Not one of these pillars bothers anyone else. Most have parallels in Judeo-Christian belief. A Christian could go along with all of them aexcept the belief in Mohammed as the ultimate prophet. It’s the details that cause the problems, but I would argue that the essentials of the monotheistic religions are remarkably similar.
Geographically - no problem. Praying facing Mecca does not cause any social harm to others, any more than Catholics revering Rome or Jews praying “next year in Jerusalem” hurts other religions.
Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.
Many Moslems do not take this seriously, and understand that it refers to a directive for a particular time and place, not universally applicable. Even the Caliphs had Jewish and Christian intellectuals as advisers at court; and in America, Muslims frequently associate with non-Muslims.
Christianity also teaches that we should not associate with certain people, and we might be better off if we took some of its advice to heart.
Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan.
The diversity of advice from spiritual leaders in Islam is probably just as great as the advice from the pulpit among Christians. Whether one wishes to abdicate all thought in favor of a leader’s words is an individual choice, and not a phenomenon at all unique to Moslems.
Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).
Moslems men are not “instructed” to take four wives; they are permitted so to do. Moslem marriage, with all its primitive aspects, is on balance no worse than that among non-Moslems. However, the child-rearing by oppressed women in the more extreme Moslem families is, I think, a very bad thing, and produces uneducated, primitive, hard women, and violent, frustrated young men. That is not necessary, however, and an evolution to a more humane style is possible.
When we consider these things, we must be comparative. No good Moslems would think of endorsing abortion, or having coed dorms in a college. So who is being more moral, and more realistic? It is we who come off looking worse when one thinks about some issues like that.
Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.
This argument is very far-fetched. First, the US Constitution is based only indirectly on Biblical beliefs. For example, it does not enforce Old Testament food restrictions, or any of the hundreds of biblical rules and ideas which it could have incorporated. It doesn’t even enforce Sunday closing of places of business! The religious basis of the US Constitution is so general, that it is easily accommodated to the lives of Moslems. The one sticking point is Sharia Law, which certainly would violate the Bill of Rights and State’s Rights; but Sharia Law is not even enforced in most Moslem countries, and probably never will be. There are debates among Moslems about how religion should influence secular law, just as there have been debates on this issue for centuries in other societies.
Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.
This will have to change. Moslems can adapt to democracy, just as other people have. Democracy is a rather rare development in the world, throughout history, and even today. I find it interesting that with all the Arab hatred for Israel, a survey done some years ago showed that “Palestinians” (with a percentage in the 80s) actually admired Israel’s democracy, and wished that they had such a system. There is a tradition in Islam called “consensus,” which is a seed and root for democracy. Where better but in America could this beneficent tendency be allowed to grow and flourish? Also, think how badly dictatorship has worked in Moslem Arab countries: the people don’t like it, and the dictators are constantly frustrated by factionalism and independence-of-mind, which is why you find them always touting “unity” when there is no unity.
Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.
Allah of the Moslems is omniscient and omnipotent, and is the creator of all, and the judge of men, and merciful. This is very close to Judeo-Christian beliefs, and would probably give you a pass in a Catholic catechism class. Heck: we have in our society a large number of people who do not believe in any god at all, or in a “mother goddess,” or who are Buddhist, or Heaven knows what. Islam is a lot closer to Judaism and Christianity than to those other beliefs (or varieties of unbelief). We may declare “on nation under God,” but the ACLU intends to fight that until the courts give them their way. It is not the Moslems who are involved negatively in that fight.
IT IS important to realize that we are in World War IV with terrorism, and it is Islamic terrorism, to be sure. We had WWI and WWII which was fought largely against Christian enemies, and WWIII against communism, which is a Christian heresy with strong initial support from people of Jewish descent. I think that it is worthwhile, and perhaps vital, to be accurate in directing our fire in the current struggle. We don’t have to believe everything Moslems believe in order to distinguish enemies from allies.
And we can certainly agree on this!!!!!!
'...No more muslim immigration. Monitor every mosque. No more out of country Imans, no more funding from the Middle East. Strip American citizenship and deport anyone who supports terrorist organizations. The death penalty for anyone who plots terror attacks on US soil."
Good suggestions! The simplist to do is the immigration one but sadly it is still politically untouchable. The universities want their oil-rich Arab students paying out-of-state tuition fees. Those students are often slow to leave if they leave. Overturning our current immigration laws would be a gigantic coup.
We will have to suffer even worse attacks before we'll have the political capital and public support to really restrict visas and immigration from the America-haters.
I know, it's OK to lie to us kaffir. But you're not very good at it.
The following is from a Mohammedan website.
Campaign against North AfricaHow did Mohammedanism spread to Spain, and even as far north as Vienna? Was it peaceful missionary work?After the withdrawal of 'Amr b Al 'Aas , when Abdullah b Sa'ad settled down as the Governor of Egypt, he sent raiding parties to the west. As a result of these raids the Muslims got considerable booty The success of these raids made Abdullah b Sa'ad feel that a regular campaign should be undertaken for the conquest of North Africa. North Africa was originally under Byzantine control, but after the withdrawal of the Byzantines from Egypt, North Africa had declared its independence under its king Gregory. The dominions of Gregory extended from the borders of Egypt to Morocco.
Jihad against North Africa
Abdullah b Sa'ad sought the permission of Uthman to undertake Jihad against North Africa. In Madina, Uthman summoned a meeting of the Majlis-i-Shura to consider the question. After discussion it was decided that a campaign against North Africa should be undertaken. It was also decided that a force from Madina should be sent to assist the Egyptian forces under Abdullah b Sa'ad. A force of 10,000 warriors was raised in Madina, and sent to Egypt under the command of Harith b Al Hakam, in the fall of 647 C.E. The Madina force included Ma'bad b Abbas; Abdul Rahman b Abu Bakr; Abdullah b Umar; Ubaidullah b Umar; Abdullah b Zubair; Abdullah b 'Amr Al 'Aas and Marwan b Al Hakam.
Why would you want to belong to such a malevolent religion? Wouldn't you rather worship the God who is Love?
Obsiously you do not know what a Christian is!!!
Was that a joke? I'm not sure....
Amish women are typically born and raised into that culture. I'm talking about your average (?) American gal who decides to go muzzie.
If the Bible is your authority for civil law, then you are a theocrat.
What rubbish. The Third Reich had a superabundance of laws, and I am calling for many fewer. You have missed the point entirely.
I am protesting the inability of Man to keep order in his own heart and household without calling upon the State to pass laws to protect him from himself. I am a libertarian Republican, with a desire to see the oppressive legal system of this country torn to bits.
Government should concentrate on bolstering national defense, suppressing violent crime, coining sound money, and defending our borders. I place keeping angry Muslim foreigners out of our country in the latter category. Muslim citizens are another matter; they have all of the rights of any other citizen. Deporting non-citizen troublemakers, Muslim or not, is a legitimate function of a sovereign government and needs no further laws to implement.
-ccm
This stuff is a very big deal. It doesn't deserve the religious hatred or the reach for the quick fix. Even if we deported every single muslim in the U.S., America and Americans still have to live in the world, which is increasingly a very small place.
I strongly suggest you read up on the roots of islamic extremism, particularly sayyid qutb et al.
I have lived over 9 years in three Islamic countries--Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, and Iran--and visited many more. Based on firsthand experience, I can attest to the fact that Islam is practiced differently in each country. These countries are not in perpetual state of war against foreigners in their midst.
I give up on you!!!!!!1 I am moving on!
Coming from you, who has advocated gas chambers, ovens, and internment camps for American Muslim citizens, that's really rich!
Not only do YOU not know what a Christian is, you don't even know what an American is.
You're making a fool of yourself on this thread.
Interesting question.
I imagine that Christians would say the same thing.
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