No More Appeasement(Thomas Jefferson & Muslim terrorists)

worldnetdaily.com ^ | April 27, 2004 | Joseph Farah

[kellynla]

"example of a hero?"

again with the misquotations.
I NEVER SAID JEFFERSON WAS ANY HERO OF MINE!

the only thing laughable is your inept ability to debate.

you not only misquote me but are incapable of staying on the subject at hand

do us all a favor and try your lack of debating skills on another thread.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Jefferson completely changed his tune after returning to this country. His ideal solution was to scrap the Navy, prevent American shipping from carrying cargo to European waters and use gunboats to protect our coasts. He retreated as long as he could.

A good description of the Democrat-Republican strategy in dealing with the seizures in the early 1790s of American shipping (the Barbary Corsairs were believed to be under the control of Great Britain) is in John Miller's Alexander Hamilton- the Growth of the New Nation. "It was a peculiarity of the Republican leaders that even though they pushed the country to the brink of war, they insisted to the end that they were still a safe distance from the edge; the more belligerent they became toward Great Britain, the more optimistic they waxed over the prospects of preserving peace. If by some mischance war should come, it was then sufficient time, they held, to think of measures of defense. In the meantime, they seemed disposed to act upon the comfronting assumption that weakness, innocence and purity of motives were a guarantee of peace. Or, if these failed to keep off aggressors, they had no doubt that the militia could dispose of any invader. Secure in these assumption, they OPPOSED EVERY MEASURE proposed by Hamilton to put the country in a posture of defense. The war talk, said Madison, was manufactured by Hamilton in order to saddle the country with 'armies and debts'- the Secretary was up to his 'old trick of turning every contingency into a resource for accumulating force in the government.'" It should be noted that Miller is not particularly a Hamiltonian either so this is not biased.

It should also be noted that Jefferson was the LEADER of this party. So much for his farsightedness in recognizing military needs.

[justshutupandtakeit]

LoL THEY declared war on the US. Jefferson had no choice but to act even though he had assisted in weakening the Navy.

[justshutupandtakeit]

I did not quote you or even claim you said Jefferson was a hero of yours.

Anyone capable of reading would understand I was speaking of FARAH the author whose work you seem to believe worthy of posting.

[gentlestrength]

The important thing is, we WERE founded upon Christian principles, we are a Christian society with a Christian democracy, not just any old democracy where the majority supports the bad guys.

Whatever reason that phrase is in the Treaty of Tripoli, either because Richard O'Brien who drafted it had been kidnapped by the Muslims and was under pressure to put that there in order to be released, and so our Congress signed it, whatever the reason is, that phrase still is not true, NOR should it ever be directing or binding upon our nation's policies.

[ichabod1]

I never knew the Barbary Pirates were religiously motivated, nor that they called themselves mujahadeen. I did know they were muzzies and that they took slaves. White slaves.

[pageonetoo]

We will only have true peace when our enemies are UTTERLY AND COMPLETELY destroyed.

[Revenge of Sith]

There is a difference between similarities (don't forget that Federalists supported the British during the War of 1812!) and claiming to be the same actual party.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Federalists did not "support" the British in the War of 1812. There is a big difference between supporting the British and opposing a war entered into without preparation. What was left of the party opposed getting into the war.

There is so little difference between the Democrat-Republican party and its descendant, the Democrat Party, that it is not worth speaking of.

[Revenge of Sith]

Federalists in New England wanted to secede from the Union and that's the reason they don't exist anymore. I'm no fan of either of the two 1800's parties, but the Democratic Party we know today was founded by Andrew Jackson and Martin Van Buren during the 1820's. The Democrats are liars when they say that they're the party of Thomas Jefferson.

[M1Tanker]

Very good post. Thank you for this reference. One more item in the huge pile of evidence highlighting the idiocy of appeasement.

With the current foe, who is no different from the original Axis of Evil, appeasement will never work. Negotiations will never work. When these terrorists talk of "peace" they really mean "peace for us will exist when every non-Muslim is dead or enslaved".

We cannot negotiate when our opponent's only demand, which they will not budge from, is the complete and brutal death to our people and our way of life (leftist, that includes you too).

[StonyBurk]

Neither Washington ,NOR Adams supported a War against the
Barbary Pirates. They opted for payment of reparations/Ransom. Jefferson wrote to John Adams from Paris
July 11,1786 giving his opine concerning War on Barbary.
President Jefferson's First Annual Message ,Dec.8,1804 spoke of "I sent a small squadron of frigates into the
Mediteranian... with orders to protect our commerce against the threatened attack." Are we to believe the historic
record left by Jefferson - or the speculation that those who
disagree with you are "revisionist"?

[justshutupandtakeit]

They were almost all followers of Jefferson and/or old democrat/republicans. Very few of the latter shifted into the Federalists successor, the Whigs.

The same voters voted for the Democrats who voted for the Democrat/Republicans. Democrat power was concentrated in the slave power and urban north just as had that of the D/Rs.

There was no substantial difference other than dropping Republican from the name.

Martin Van Buren's base of power in New York was the same as that of George Clinton. Jackson explicitly campaigned upon Jeffersonian principles and proclaimed himself a Jeffersonian. The same class warfare ideology was employed with a vengence. Jackson was as opposed to the National Bank as was Jefferson demostrating the same economic blindness and fanaticism.

[justshutupandtakeit]

You post has already been refuted. Jefferson changed after coming back to this country and rarely backed up high minded talk with action in any case. Having war officially declared against the US by the Muslims made it impossible for him to avoid acting.

Washington and Adams considered the Corsairs puppets of Great Britain as I already said and concentrated their efforts on building a navy capable of contesting the seas with the Royal Navy the REAL power. Jefferson FOUGHT the naval buildup NO MATTER what he said in 1786.

Hamilton nailed Jefferson's personality perfectly when he called him "temporizing". He never showed a consistent, well thought out foreign policy and was a disaster in military policy.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Would you prefer "addressed"?

[Coleus]

Jefferson would continue to pay tribute to other Barbary States to the end of his second term, and his successor, James Madison, would still be paying tribute up until 1816. In 1816, the British warship HMS Queen Charlotte, at the head of a combined Anglo-Dutch fleet, poured 500 tons of munitions into the town of Algiers, obliterating the Algerine navy and damaging or destroying every building in town and killing an estimated 5,000 - 8,000 citizens and soldiers. The Bey surrendered all the slaves he had (1,642), promised never to enslave Christians again, and handed over 382,500 Austrian thalers, in sacks of 1,000 each, which amounted to over a 1 million.