Help me with an Israel question

Steve

[When do we get liberated?]

I am having an argument with a Palestinian friend of mine on the Israel/Hizzbullah situation and I am stuck and unable to prove that Hizzbullah fired rockets into Israel prior to Israel's incursion of Southern Lebanon. Can someone point me in the right direction on this one?

[When do we get liberated?]

Atheist Arabs are not likely to do that

[When do we get liberated?]

what is the source

[When do we get liberated?]

As to 1 and 2, he is Palestinian, not a moron. As to 3, is it relevent.

[Sabramerican]

One more time: YES

[Alouette]

if Aztlan suddenly declared itself a state and claimed the right to defend itself. The person that I was speaking with used the line that "it is their original homeland as well".

Yeah. "Palestine" was never a sovereign nation. The British created the Palestine Mandate out of a chunk of the former Ottoman empire and designated it as the "Jewish National Homeland." In 1923 they broke off a huge chunk of the designated Jewish Homeland and gave it to the Arabs for a "Palestinian Homeland" (aka Transjordan).

The Jews did not invade another sovereign nation to claim a homeland, they defended the remnant of land that was given to them by the League of Nations from Arabs who wanted to drive them into the sea.

[Alouette]

Would he also be for killing Christians?

Those wonderful, peace loving Palestinians, murdering Lebanese Christians since 1976

[oldleft]

Sorry. I thought it was on there. Ha'aretz.

[Alouette]

Pile on, FReepers.

FRmail me to be added or removed from this Judaic/pro-Israel/Russian Jewry ping list.

Warning! This is a high-volume ping list.

[Paved Paradise]

It doesn't appear that your "friend's" problem is a need of proof.

[brazzaville]

Good morning.

I could be wrong, and I apologize beforehand if I am, But I think you are an Islamist or an Islamist sympathizer.

Islamic countries and their proxies have vowed to destroy Israel since it's birth in 1948. That they get their heads handed to them each time they try just adds to the hatred that motivates them.

They also hate the US. We'll hand them their heads, too, but they are only just beginning to see that.

Luck to Israel.

Michael Frazier

[edzo4]

I thought the terrorists like hamams and hezbollah et al were going to stop if isral left gaza,
i rember the isral people getting dragged out of thier homes less than a year ago in the name of peace with a bunch of murdering thugs that do not play by the rules

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0909/p07s01-wome.html


As Israel leaves Gaza, will militants lay down their guns?
President Abbas is faced with a growing challenge from Palestinian militants as they vie for influence in Gaza.

By Ilene R. Prusher | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

JABALYA REFUGEE CAMP, GAZA – Not yet 30 and already boasting three years of experience in the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, Raed Abu Faddak is wondering whether he will soon have to find a new occupation.
After quitting college and then working in a textile factory in Israel, Mr. Abu Faddak joined Al Aqsa, one of many groups that sprang up around the intifada when it began five years ago this month after Israeli-Palestinian peace talks broke down.


"If there's no Israeli occupation, there is no need for resistance," says Abu Faddak, dressed in military gear that, judging from the Hebrew inside his khaki flak jacket, is stolen from the Israeli army. "If they leave Gaza, we won't fight from Gaza. But if they're still in Ramallah, there will be resistance in Ramallah."

Just as Israeli struggled against Israeli as part of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's withdrawal plan, to be completed next week, Palestinian is now facing Palestinian in a tug of war over what comes next.

While some, like Abu Faddak (whose name may be a pseudonym), think that Palestinians should stop attacking Israel from Gaza if Israel completely reverses its 38-year occupation here, other militant groups, including Hamas, say the struggle should continue.

Moreover, the proliferation of militant groups alongside a weak Palestinian Authority (PA) means that during the transition - in which Palestinians stand to gain 21 former Israeli settlements - some ambitious groups are seizing the opportunity to stake their claim in the new Gaza.

[brazzaville]

Good morning.
"Any ideas on how to deflect that one?"

That's easy. Aztlan is a myth created by socialist Latino student activists to excuse their attempt to conquer the US. Israel is an ancient place and was the home to Jews a century and a half before Islam even existed.

Michael Frazier

[unionblue83]

The Lebanese government is less than a year old, and emerging and fragile democracy in the wake of the departure of the Syrians. First point, the Syrian Army left but their intelligence wing and operatives are still there. They are in place within the army and government. Hezbollah has been around for over 20 years, with well established ties with Iran and others in the M.E. A joint military operation with the Lebanese army would have made far more sense... strengthening a moderate mixed-religion ME country and a natural ally in the WOT. The Lebanese army is populated with Syrian and pro-Syrian personnel. They also aren't strong enough to force the Hizzies out of their country. The UN hasn't enforced the zone that they wanted so badly for Israel to get out of. Israel had the Hizzies in this area under control when they "occupied" it. What is to be gained by weakening the Lebanese government? The Lebanese government is weak enough on its own. Do you really think that Hezbollah will be eradicated by bombing the Beirut airport? The "innocent" Beirut airport is where the flights from Damascus and Tehran carrying in arms and missles land. It was strategically smart to cut this off. Do you really think that bombing a Christian television station in NORTHERN Lebanon, and taking out Radio Free Lebanon helps the WOT?? If these transmitters are being used to inform Hizbollah of the Israeli positions or could be used by Hizbollah if they are taken over by such to support their communications network these also are fair game militarily.

[The Toll]

Thanks. I should have been more clear though. The guy I was talking to was a lefty, so historical accuracy was of no value. I was trying to explain the truth without having to prove history to an idiot. I often find that when my opinions are based in history using that line of reasoning with these folks is pointless. So was the entire conversation I suppose.

[SJackson]

It doesn't sound like facts matter, but I presume he wasn't thinking of giving the land back to Turkey. The fact of the matter is that the Ottomans lost the region like Mexico did, in a war, WWI. At the behest of the League of Nations, Britain and France governed the region, with the intent of dividing it into a number of autonomous states for the local inhabitants. One of those states, the one everyone complains about, was designated the Jewish Homeland, initially comprising todays Israel, West Bank, Gaza, and Jordan. Divided again in 1922, splitting Jordan off from the Jewish Homeland for the Hashemites who'd been kicked out of Arabia, then split again in 1947. The legal genesis of Israel is no different than the other states in the mandate territory, who, like Israel, became sovereign during and after WWII. If Israel is illegitimate, so is Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, the various small states on the peninsula, and a large swath of Egypt. It all belongs to the Turks. None of that will mean a thing to someone who's opposition is based on the presence of Jews in the middle east.

[kenavi]

Judging from polls and statements of their leaders, many Moslems deny the Holocaust and that Moslems attacked us on 9/11 (at the same time, many of these same people admire Ben Laden for doing so). So your "Palestinian" friend is ahead of the game.

Contrary to others on this thread, I don't agree that Jews automatically, or divinely, had a right to uproot people simply because there had once been a Jewish, or rather Hebrew, state on the land. It IS relevant, however, when many Moslems deny it, or when a guy like Arafat can identify himself to Pope John Paul II as following in the footsteps of "my fellow Palestinian, Peter". It WAS relevant when the Mufti of Jerusalem and other Moslem leaders fell in with Hitler based on a common version of history.

[SJackson]

See post 75. The Ottomans takes us back to Columbus's time, and the Arabs claim to their states is the same as Israels.

[detroitdarien]

But I think you are an Islamist or an Islamist sympathizer.

I'm a Christian sympathizer.

[brazzaville]

Good afternoon.
"...when my opinions are based in history using that line of reasoning with these folks is pointless. So was the entire conversation I suppose."

There you are. Easy, eh.

Michael Frazier

[brazzaville]

Good afternoon.
"I'm a Christian sympathizer."

You are a Christian, or you sympathize with them? Either way, you write as if you blame Israel for what is happening. That and your name, which puts you near the heart of Islam in America makes me suspicious.

As I said, I apologize if I'm wrong.

Michael Frazier