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If Embryos are Human then Fertility Clinics are Death Camps: Pro-abortion Columnist
LifeSiteNews ^ | 7/21/06 | John Jalsevac

Posted on 07/21/2006 2:32:59 PM PDT by wagglebee

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“In short, if embryos are human beings with full human rights, fertility clinics are death camps—with a side order of cold-blooded eugenics,” writes Kinsley in an article entitled Where’s the Logic? “No one who truly believes in the humanity of embryos could possibly think otherwise.”

Yes, that is what I believe.

1 posted on 07/21/2006 2:33:01 PM PDT by wagglebee
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To: cgk; Coleus; cpforlife.org; Mr. Silverback

Pro Life Ping.


2 posted on 07/21/2006 2:33:37 PM PDT by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee

It is called waking up to reality.


3 posted on 07/21/2006 2:34:49 PM PDT by weegee (Call Ted Kennedy's office and tell them you would've called 10 hours ago but couldn't get to a phone)
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To: wagglebee
Kinsley explains that in vitro clinics always create numerous embryos, ultimately selecting the best and destroying the rest.

Kinsley is then either lying or hasn't got a clue.

4 posted on 07/21/2006 2:38:21 PM PDT by ZGuy
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To: ZGuy

This is how I thought it worked -- only one egg is fertilized, then?


5 posted on 07/21/2006 2:39:12 PM PDT by scrabblehack
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To: wagglebee
Yes, that is what I believe.

The author misses a basic underlying issue here. Fertility clinics create embryos to create new life for otherwise-infertile couples. Whereas the purpose of embryonic stem-cell research is to destroy embryos. A very critical semantic difference - purpose - just as killing in self-defense is moral whereas murder is not.

6 posted on 07/21/2006 2:39:40 PM PDT by dirtboy (Glad to see the ink was still working in Bush's veto pen, now that he wisely used it on this bill)
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To: wagglebee; pageonetoo; Lunatic Fringe; jan in Colorado

And God kills off at least one in eight people before their mother even knows she's pregnant! Heaven is loaded with zygotes!

It really does make one think about when zygotes, embryos, whatever, are embued with souls.


7 posted on 07/21/2006 2:40:28 PM PDT by Gondring (If "Conservatives" now want to "conserve" our Constitution away, then I must be a Preservative!)
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To: wagglebee
Yes, that is what I believe.

I've never seen a pro-life protester at a fertility clinic. Is it as common as picketing an abortion clinic?

8 posted on 07/21/2006 2:40:37 PM PDT by Zeroisanumber (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: scrabblehack
This is how I thought it worked -- only one egg is fertilized, then?

No. They don't automatically destroy the rest. They fertilize a number of embryos and implant one of the viable ones into the mother. Any other viable ones may be frozen for future implantations, or donated to be used by another infertile couple, or destroyed.

In our case, the only viable one resulted in a beautiful, intelligent little girl whom we dearly love. There were no others to decide over.

9 posted on 07/21/2006 2:44:16 PM PDT by TChris (Banning DDT wasn't about birds. It was about power.)
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To: dirtboy
Whereas the purpose of embryonic stem-cell research is to destroy embryos.

What GALL to make such an INCREDIBLY ridiculous claim! This type of distortion SICKENS me.

The purpose of embryonic stem-cell research is not to destroy embryos....they could destroy embryos without the research! The purpose is to save and improve lives via the results of the research!

10 posted on 07/21/2006 2:44:46 PM PDT by Gondring (If "Conservatives" now want to "conserve" our Constitution away, then I must be a Preservative!)
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Duh. Finally.

Yes, SINCE embryos ARE human beings, those clinics and all associated are EVIL and guilty and should be terrified.

11 posted on 07/21/2006 2:46:23 PM PDT by gentlestrength (Jesus--the only comfort for sinners)
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To: Gondring
What GALL to make such an INCREDIBLY ridiculous claim! This type of distortion SICKENS me.

Sorry, but how else are you going to get embryonic stem cells, other than destroying embryos? I did not use the right word with purpose - I should have said something about the method to achieve the end goal - however, you CANNOT do embryonic stem cell research without embryos having been destroyed at some point. That is NOT the case with fertility clinics.

And I'm sorry, but a large amount of the promotion of embryonic stem cell research is about obtaining federal research money. Saving lives is secondary. That's the case with climate research that promotes global warming, and that's the case here.

12 posted on 07/21/2006 2:48:12 PM PDT by dirtboy (Glad to see the ink was still working in Bush's veto pen, now that he wisely used it on this bill)
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To: TChris; scrabblehack; pageonetoo; Lunatic Fringe

There are many frozen embryos out there...many locked in legal limbo as the parents do not want them, or the parents have split up or died or whatever.

So...if heaven is where we are united with God, and where any Christian should want to be, what is the Christian view of a place that freezes humans indefinitely? Do these embryos have souls locked up apart from God? Isn't it more Christian to release them so they go directly to heaven, rather than sit imprisoned apart from God?

There are questions that are conveniently ignored by both sides of the abortion/pro-life debate.


13 posted on 07/21/2006 2:48:54 PM PDT by Gondring (If "Conservatives" now want to "conserve" our Constitution away, then I must be a Preservative!)
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To: wagglebee
From this alleged silence he infers that pro-life advocates are inconsistent, and thereby calls into question the sincerity of the pro-life belief that the embryo is a human being with all the same human rights as any other human being.

I have never had a problem with fertility clinics, because I had no idea they kill viable embryos. Its not inconsistency, its a lack of information. Now, thanks to this column, I have been informed and can say with certainty that throwing away a viable embryo at a fertility clinic is every bit as immoral as stem cell research.

14 posted on 07/21/2006 2:49:28 PM PDT by The Blitherer ("I left orders to be awakened at any time...even if I'm in a cabinet meeting." -Ronald Reagan)
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To: wagglebee

In cases where embryos are destroyed, he's absolutely right.


15 posted on 07/21/2006 2:49:54 PM PDT by Alberta's Child (Can money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep?)
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To: Gondring

The other side of that argument is that God takes humans at all stages of life, but that society forbids humans taking human life in most circumstances.

Abortion and embryonic stem cell research are currently among the exceptions.


16 posted on 07/21/2006 2:50:41 PM PDT by cvq3842
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To: wagglebee
“In any particular case, fertility clinics try to produce more embryos than they intend to implant. Then…they pick and choose among the candidates, looking for qualities that make for a better human being…If the fertility clinic rejects you, you get flushed away—or maybe frozen until the day you can be discarded without controversy.”
The only logical conclusion, he says, “is that if embryos are human beings, the routine practices of fertility clinics are far worse—both in numbers and in criminal intent—than stem-cell research.”

He may be pro-abortion, but he has certainly followed the logic to its conclusion, and his conclusion is absolutely correct. His claim that "no one objects" is false, however. The Catholic Church has been objecting for years ... MSM pays no attention.

17 posted on 07/21/2006 2:51:49 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: wagglebee

"if embryos are human beings with full human rights, fertility clinics are death camps"

welcome to reality. be careful of the blinding light as you crawl out of the deep dark pit.


18 posted on 07/21/2006 2:52:22 PM PDT by kpp_kpp
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To: Gondring

We know of one baby, still in utero, who had an experience of spiritual joy and actually leapt when pregnant Mary (with Jesus) came into the room: John the baptist, because he recognized Who was there: his Lord and Savior.

"Fetuses" or embryos are humans, made in the image of God, contrary to what the godless liberal religion preaches.


19 posted on 07/21/2006 2:52:59 PM PDT by gentlestrength
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To: ArrogantBustard

If Brains Are Dangerous, the author is a 'Safety Zone'


20 posted on 07/21/2006 2:54:02 PM PDT by litehaus
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