Posted on 07/16/2006 7:25:19 AM PDT by Jeff Head
The remains of three missing Israel Defense Forces soldiers who disappeared when their warship was attacked by Hezbollah off the coast of Lebanon were found Sunday aboard the damaged vessel, military officials said.
The body of a fourth soldier hurt in the attack was identified Saturday as Staff Sergeant Tal Amgar, 21, from Ashdod.
The three soldiers have been named as Sergeant Yoni Hershkovitz, 21, from Haifa; Corporal Shai Atias, 19, from Rishon Letzion and First Staff Sergeant Dov Shteinshos, 37, from Carmiel.
The incident occurred close to 8 P.M., west of Beirut, when the INS Spear, a Saar-5 Class destroyer, was on patrol as part of the naval blockade imposed on Lebanon since Wednesday.
The Saar-5 class is equipped with very advanced defensive systems. However, these were not in operation at the time of the attack, partly because of the number of IAF aircraft operating in the area. It was feared that if the system was in operation, it would mistakenly identify friendly aircraft as enemy targets and engage them.
The Navy has already issued new orders to its vessels operating off Lebanon.
The missile struck the vessel near its helicopter landing pad at the rear of the ship. A large explosion caused the landing pad to cave in and be engulfed in flames that threatened the aviation fuel storage below.
Initial assessment held that the ship had been struck by an unmanned aerial vehicle loaded with explosives. However, later in the night it became clear that a missile had hit INS Spear.
The missile, is a C-802 radar-guided anti-shipping missile manufactured in Iran using Chinese technology. Its range is estimated to be about 110 km.
(Excerpt) Read more at haaretz.com ...
In this case, I believe Patton is right. The IDF has a single rank structure for all services, which explains why sailors hold ranks of sergeant and staff sergeant. In fact, the head of the Israeli Navy is a brigadier general.
The purpose of fighting can not be to do the least possible, to allow a return to the peace that existed before the war began. The fact that war began demonstrates that the previous circumstance, the status quo ante, was not tenable; to return to it is to guarantee that war continues.
The proper purpose of a war must be to re-draw the reality on the ground, to create a new status quo that is tenable. For certain that must include the complete elimination of Hezbollah and Hamas, they must be hunted down and removed from the equation, including and especially the leadership, as well as anyone else who comes out to play. Those members of Hamas who were members of the PA "government" must be arrested or forced into exile; no remnant of either force, Hezbollah or Hamas, must survive in any territory bordering Israel.
Eliminating these two parties will allow Lebanon to reestablish its sovereignty, and for other voices to emerge in the territories.
But it will not be a lasting solution as long as the Assad regime continues to dominate the scene, and as long as Syria continues to act as Iran's puppet.
This is where it gets dicey. I wouldn't have wished for this a week ago, but the war is on. We aren't going to have a better chance to finish unfinished business than now. The violence will be pushed back but will not end as long as Iran and Syria are feeding it, nor will our war in Iraq end for exactly the same reasons. We may not have noticed it but despite our efforts to keep them separate, our war and Israel's war are now the same war. Our enemies in Iraq are fed by Iran and Syria; Israel's enemies are fed from the same source.
We fight Iranian proxies and forces directed and supplied from Syria; they do as well.
As we establish the new ground reality, we need to include Syria in the recipe. If we ever have to face Iran, we will be glad Syria was dealt with previously. The Assads need to be brought down, and we aren't likely to get a better chance than now.
I wouldn't have wished for this a week ago, but the war is on. We aren't going to have a better chance to finish unfinished business than now. The violence will be pushed back but will not end as long as Iran and Syria are feeding it, nor will our war in Iraq end for exactly the same reasons. We may not have noticed it but despite our efforts to keep them separate, our war and Israel's war are now the same war. Our enemies in Iraq are fed by Iran and Syria; Israel's enemies are fed from the same source.
As we establish the new ground reality, we need to include Syria in the recipe. If we ever have to face Iran, we will be glad Syria was dealt with previously. The Assads need to be brought down, and we aren't likely to get a better chance than now.
Every word true. The question is, does our leadership possess the common sense, and the courage, to carry out what needs to be done. Sadly, I suspect the answer is ‘No’. Too focused on international public opinion and the mid-term election ... and too fearful of media backlash to any genuine show of strength and reslove to place the real source of the evil in our cross-hairs and pull the trigger.
I am hoping against hope that a large fly trap is being created with Israel responding appropriately to violations of her soveriegnty, to draw both Syria and Iran in to give us the pretext to do just what you indicate.
I would like to think (and perhaps it is just wistful thinking on my part) that we have been waiting for just such a provocation and that a larger play is being acted out. Our own forces are, after all, on both flanks of Iran and I do not believe that is an accident.
? Between ourselves and Israel, we are also on both sides of Syria, and I also believe that is no accident.
Now is the time to draw those flancks into incirclement.
Here is the thread I spoke of.
as soon as the 'first shot is fired'----s--t happens in all wars----thankfully it did not sink the ship and gave the Israelis notice of the eqipment the enemy had---they will not make a mistake again
Oh well, even some of the best plans rearely survive first contact in an engagement.
Thanks, back in and getting caughtup.
The WSJ is saying this morning that officers on board the ship indeed neglected to have the antimissile warning system activated.
RE: "C-802 radar-guided anti-shipping missile manufactured in Iran using Chinese technology"
When is an act of war not an act of war? When it is inconvenient. Talk about an "inconvenient truth!" Kick that can down the road ....
Worked on some stuff that went into one of our earlier versions of HARM.
It seems there is no reasonable way to regard the "status quo ante" as "tenable," if an entire country -- Lebanon -- can be seized as hostage by a filthy, murderous gang of mutts with extraordinarily depraved and evil ideas. And from the "invested country," then to go on to conduct attacks on its sovereign neighbors. NIMBY!!!
My heart goes out to the Lebanese people; but they are (figuratively sppeaking) host to a metastasizing cancer that threatens the very life of the human race, writ large. Hostages, and host: Pray for the innocents among them, and I imagine that to be the majority of the people of this multi-ethnic society. I read or heard today that some 40 percent of the population is Shia Islam; but there are Sunnis there, and Christians, and Copts, et. al.
Hisb'Allah is, of course, Shia Islam; and thus is in bed with Iran of course. What is more difficult to understand is why Baby Assad of Syria, who is a Sunni in a Sunni nation, would jump on-board the Teheran Train.
The Shia constitute a minority of the population in Lebanon, yet hold a couple dozen seats in the Lebanese parliament, and two cabinet ministries. And even though the United Nations has demanded that the Lebanese government disarm and disband Hisbollah, the official government is toothless to do so. Which is why Hisbollah gets away with conducting a foreign policy independent of Lebanon's.
Indeed, marron, what is critically needed here is a redrawn reality "on the ground" that rejects such manifest evil, one that respects basic human dignity....
And appeasement -- in any shape or form, large or small -- does not take us to that goal. To the enemy, any act of appeasement at all is interpreted as a confession of weakness.
Forget "diplomacy." It obviously doesn't work. You cannot "reason" with these depraved, bloody-minded people. All you can do is stop them from killing. Which usually means you have to kill them first. Welcome to WWIII.
May God bless Israel and stand beside her in her desperate hour; and may He succor the hapless victims of innocent Lebanon; and bless the people of the United States of America, especially our CIC, George Bush.
Thank you, dear marron, for your brilliant analysis.
Maranatha Jesus..
Maranatha Jesus!
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