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To: Dead Corpse
"The Freedom of individuals to come together in groups?"

Now you're trying to argue that the freedom of assembly is an individual right because an assembly consists of individuals? Get a grip. You keep up this childish nonsense and I'm outta here. I really don't have time to play these 3rd grade word games with you.

"and you STILL think it only applies to the FedGov and that the States can just strip us of that Right by simple law..."

I THINK it applies only to the FedGov?? No, I KNOW it only applies to the FedGov and can back that up with probably a dozen federal circuit court opinions. You, on the other hand, cannot cite one source that demonstrates the second amendment appling to the states. That does not stop you, however, from holding your breath and stomping your feet and making that claim post after post after post, ad nauseum.

And no, the states cannot "just strip us of that Right by simple law". The states are guided by their state constitution.

"No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms" is what they explicitly meant though and not your twisted 20th Century legal fiction."

Those were Jefferson's words to the Virginia legislature as a suggestion for inclusion in the Virginia State Constitution. It was rejected. Instead, the legislature adopted, "A well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free State."

If Jefferson couldn't even sell that concept to his own state, I highly doubt your claim that the Founding Fathers "explicitly meant" that to apply to the second amendment. You just make this $hit up as you go along, don't you?

"how their "unalienable" Right to keep and bear arms is doing."

Your RKBA is not an unalienable right.

"No State may exercise a power given explicitly to the Federal Government"

States retained their police power.

"the twisted legal reasoning that will allow you and your pals in the Brady Bunch to strip us of our Rights"

Once you understand who's actually protecting your RKBA, the better you'll be able to do something about it. If you continue to believe that the second amendment, Congress, and the U.S. Supreme Court is protecting your RKBA, your rights will be gone before you know it.

75 posted on 07/14/2006 8:03:04 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
and can back that up with probably a dozen federal circuit court opinions.

But not one quote from the Constitution or a Founder. Typical.

Also, I've cited several sources, you just refuse to read them. I can't force you to stop being stupid. You either read what the Founders wrote, or you can continue to push your leftist court rulings.

You ignored this one for instance:

US House from June 28th, 1856
And the people of said Territory shall be entitled to the right to keep and bear arms, to the liberty of speech and of the press, as defined in the constitution of the United States, and all other rights of person or property thereby declared and as thereby defined.

And you ignored the various letters included from the State Conventions when they responded back to the Continental Congress about ratifying the US Constitution. Stuff like this:
Do, in virtue of the power and authority to us given for that purpose, fully and entirely approve of, assent to, and ratify, the said Constitution; and declare that, immediately from and after this state shall be admitted by the Congress into the Union, and to a full participation of the benefits of the government now enjoyed by the states in the Union, the same shall be binding on us, and the people of the state of Vermont, forever.

Sounds like Vermont knew it was giving up power to the FedGov. Specific and limited. That it would accept the limitations placed on it as a member State.

You further completely ignored this:

Keep ignoring the facts. It makes you look like an utter idiot to continue to quote Brady Logic.

77 posted on 07/14/2006 8:15:22 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (It is not the oath that makes us believe the man, but the man the oath.- Aeschylus)
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To: robertpaulsen; Dead Corpse
Dead Corpse doesn't let facts get in his way. To his way of "thinking", a drug dealer has rights but the American people and their institutions do not.
"Every man, and every body of men on earth, possesses the right of self-government. They receive it with their being from the hand of nature. Individuals exercise it by their single will; collections of men by that of their majority; for the law of the majority is the natural law of every society of men." --Thomas Jefferson

"That every power vested in a government is in its nature sovereign, and includes, by force of the term, a right to employ all the means requisite and fairly applicable to the attainment of the ends of such power, and which are not precluded by restrictions and exceptions specified in the Constitution, or not immoral, or not contrary to the essential ends of political society." -- Alexander Hamilton

"But the constitution of the United States has not left the right of Congress to employ the necessary means, for the execution of the powers conferred on the government, to general reasoning. To its enumeration of powers is added that of making 'all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this constitution, in the government of the United States, or in any department thereof.' " -- United States Supreme Court, McCulloch v. Maryland (1819)

"Each house of Congress possesses this natural right of governing itself, and consequently of fixing it's own times and places of meeting, so far as it has not been abridged by the law of those who employ them, that is to say, by the Constitution." -- Thomas Jefferson

"It has been frequently held by this court that the grant of citizenship is not inconsistent with the right of Congress to continue to exercise this authority by legislation deemed adequate to that end." -- United States Supreme Court, BRADER V. JAMES, 246 U.S. 88 (1918)


116 posted on 07/21/2006 11:56:00 PM PDT by Mojave
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