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To: robertpaulsen
Baloney. The "freedom of assembly" is a collective right. I can even argue that the "freedom of the press" and the "freedom of religion" is a collective right -- can I form the individual Church of Robertpaulsen and not pay taxes?

The Freedom of individuals to come together in groups? That's your example of a "collective" right? Your first example is pure spin.

And no, Rights secured by compact with government. In this case, by the US Constitution whereby the individual States ceded authority, and submitted themselves to the authority, of the FedGov in specifically defined areas.

You are so off base with regards to the purpose of the Second Amendment it isn't even ridiculous any more. All those past quotations from the various Founders purporting the individual Right, even going as far as calling it a Duty, to keep and bear arms and you STILL think it only applies to the FedGov and that the States can just strip us of that Right by simple law...

The second amendment was to secure the right of the state to form and maintain a state militia, however they saw fit to do so.

Ah... the Brady Logic for supporting gun control. "No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms" is what they explicitly meant though and not your twisted 20th Century legal fiction.

Ask the folks in California, Illinois, Maryland, ect... how their "unalienable" Right to keep and bear arms is doing. You are WRONG there are well. No State may exercise a power given explicitly to the Federal Government as they ceded that authority via ratification of the Constitution. They are also bound by every other prohibition and limitation therein. Including the Rights so protected by the BoR.

Look, I know you want to retain the twisted legal reasoning that will allow you and your pals in the Brady Bunch to strip us of our Rights. But I gotta tell you, countries have fought wars over less.

72 posted on 07/14/2006 6:35:15 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (It is not the oath that makes us believe the man, but the man the oath.- Aeschylus)
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To: Dead Corpse
"The Freedom of individuals to come together in groups?"

Now you're trying to argue that the freedom of assembly is an individual right because an assembly consists of individuals? Get a grip. You keep up this childish nonsense and I'm outta here. I really don't have time to play these 3rd grade word games with you.

"and you STILL think it only applies to the FedGov and that the States can just strip us of that Right by simple law..."

I THINK it applies only to the FedGov?? No, I KNOW it only applies to the FedGov and can back that up with probably a dozen federal circuit court opinions. You, on the other hand, cannot cite one source that demonstrates the second amendment appling to the states. That does not stop you, however, from holding your breath and stomping your feet and making that claim post after post after post, ad nauseum.

And no, the states cannot "just strip us of that Right by simple law". The states are guided by their state constitution.

"No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms" is what they explicitly meant though and not your twisted 20th Century legal fiction."

Those were Jefferson's words to the Virginia legislature as a suggestion for inclusion in the Virginia State Constitution. It was rejected. Instead, the legislature adopted, "A well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free State."

If Jefferson couldn't even sell that concept to his own state, I highly doubt your claim that the Founding Fathers "explicitly meant" that to apply to the second amendment. You just make this $hit up as you go along, don't you?

"how their "unalienable" Right to keep and bear arms is doing."

Your RKBA is not an unalienable right.

"No State may exercise a power given explicitly to the Federal Government"

States retained their police power.

"the twisted legal reasoning that will allow you and your pals in the Brady Bunch to strip us of our Rights"

Once you understand who's actually protecting your RKBA, the better you'll be able to do something about it. If you continue to believe that the second amendment, Congress, and the U.S. Supreme Court is protecting your RKBA, your rights will be gone before you know it.

75 posted on 07/14/2006 8:03:04 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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