Posted on 07/06/2006 7:39:44 AM PDT by toaster
...because Ken Lay's case may still have been appealed, Lay's death expunges the conviction from his record.
This means that any orders to vacate his wealth are annulled, and his family gets to keep millions of dollars that they likely would have lost had he gone to jail.
(Excerpt) Read more at nizenotes.com ...
I'm certain that I've read than an appeal was filed in regards to his criminal trial.
***Some of the Calvinist branches would argue that free will is really just a myth, and that every second of every life is planned and known.***
To be more precise, in our fallen state our free will causes us to choose poorly, so to speak. It is not until we have been regenerated that our free will is capable of professing faith in Christ and willing to please God.
"To be more precise, in our fallen state our free will causes us to choose poorly, so to speak. It is not until we have been regenerated that our free will is capable of professing faith in Christ and willing to please God.
"
Right. As I said in a later message, I shouldn't even mention this stuff in these threads. It's way to complex to really get into here.
It's a fun discussion for a lazy Saturday, though, assuming you have a well-schooled Calvinist on hand. It can go on for hours and hours.
I'm not doing that any more. That was something from my late twenties, when I had the energy for such discussions.
No, a conviction does not become final, and is void, if the person found guilty dies before the time runs out to take an appeal. The time does not start to run until the person is sentenced.
If you think the law is obvious or rational, you got another think coming. ;-)
Since he had not yet been sentenced, his appeal had not been filed. If motions for an appeal of the conviction *had been* filed already (pre-sentencing), some legal commentators said it was possible it could have gone forward - but Lay just told media last week that he had not begun the work on it, nor had his lawyers.
They do still have to file something to make the whole criminal case against Lay (not Skilling) go away. They said they would wait about a week for the family to do what it needs to do and then they would file.
Not yet. They said it would be a week. Linda Lay has to be consulted on it - there are family documents put up for bond, for one thing, and her own half-of-a-home is half of a frozen asset that can't be sold - and they want to give the family a week before starting all that.
FWIW, they haven't been paid, either, but that's neither here nor there.
My wife tells me the moonbats on the ferry from Martha's Vineyard were all convinced that Bush and Lay had faked the death and had him now hiding out in South America.
Yes, the shareholder suits had already been filed - in fact, some have already had previous settlements with both individual defendants and with institutional targets - to the tune of $7 billion awarded, so far (not paid).
The lead plaintiff is the Univ of CA system. They are saying that what's left of Lay's estate isn't really worth pursuing - estimated at around $9.5 million - $6+ million in a stock account and his half of the $1.5 million value on his homesteaded high-rise condo and some other something I've forgotten, perhaps the remaining RE in Houston and whatever is left of KL's of the $5 million bond that will be returned. Some of that may be Linda's.
They can't touch Linda's annuities, esimated at $20 million, or KL's life insurance, estimated at $10 million, or her half of the homestead - and they probably won't go after the other half. Not even sure they could.
There is some other asset that I'm overlooking that Linda will also have to her benefit, but I've heard so much the last two days, I can't think what it would be. It is sizable. And no, it's not the offshore accounts - I don't know if anyone knows what or where those are. She would also get whatever is hers or her half of the portions of $5 million bond that will be returned.
Another shareholder suit was certified for class-action just Wednesday - I'm trying to find out if that was after his death was known about, or not. I believe it targets Merrill Lynch and is over and above the lawsuits the remnant Enron Estate itself has filed against Merrill Lynch. I *thought* I just read they had settled that with the EE for around $30 million, but it's hard to keep up what proceeds are going to the bankrupt corporation for its own purposes or what is all to satisfy lawsuits. The corporate lawsuits are bundled into the "MegaClaim case."
There are also SEC filings against both Enron and Lay. I believe that's what the fed amount of $183 million was about, with $43 million of that the now-unclaimable forfeiture.
Lay owed his criminal defense attorneys another $20 million, last I heard - supposedly, the original $21 million raised from the sale of the Aspen properties alone (not including 11 properties in Houston and 3 beachfront in Galveston) was to pay their original bill, leading up to trial.
Remember, Lay claimed his net worth was [minus] $250,000 when the trial started. We already know that's not true.
These will drag out forever.
The suits are numerous and ongoing - and more can be filed in the future, such as the government trying to find and get the $43 million (if they want to pursue it) and the $140 million already being pursued.
Glad you posted that. I had friends who worked there (and some still in the remnant) and I was so glad I was not involved with the company in any way, just by their irrational glee and lots of little things I had seen before.
You were so right to recognize those ahead of time and steer clear!
I had worked - oh, wait - this will play into enemy hands. I *met* Ken Lay - no, wait. Let's see KL was at a certain unnamed national political convention where I was also working and I was struck by the complete phoniness that others considered charisma.
I've stated this before, not just after he died. I really, really didn't like the go-go stuff this company was doing - I liked the old HNG and the people at the top. This go-go stuff was appalling - and when this all came down in late 2001, I was not surprised to find that at least a few of the higher-ups whose paths had not crossed mine in quite a while had been perps in a previous financial scandal 15 years before, in another state, which brought down some large banks.
The go-go people find each other, over and over again, until something like this happens.
*Whatever*
I saw a good legal quote yesterday that backs up what you're saying - lemme go find it.
Ummm, yes, it was definitely proven that he sold $70 million worth of stock just during that particular timeframe when he was telling everyone to buy, buy, buy. And blue-skying that it would be worth 800 times what it was then, as it was still going down. You saw the trial coverage.
LOL! A subtle reference to Rigor Mortis?
It's going to be 2-3 weeks before the tox screen and microscopic tissue samples come back, according to Pitkin County, which will announce the results.
Our happiness and safety are important to the good forces of the Universe, if you would like to hear it termed like that.
We have free will; some choose to use it for good, some for evil. God can't repeal the laws of nature or man, but can and does intervene whenever He chooses to. If some men choose evil for their deeds and actions, others are going to be adversely affected, because we're all humans here on earth.
IMHO
She couldn't be bothered to come to court every day or be there for the jury's decision, though.
He *says* it will be, but let's see if something doesn't turn up in these lawsuits.
Had a doctorate in Economics, too! But claimed to be "clueless" about Enron's workings.
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