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What Birds See [evolution of the eye]
Scientific American ^ | July 2006 | Timothy H. Goldsmith

Posted on 07/03/2006 10:05:56 AM PDT by doc30

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To: Skooz

Trust me you would fit right in. I suggest anyone that thinks that atheists, hindus, buddists, blacks, hispanics or others aren't fit to be conservatives stop posting here and go where your wanted.


61 posted on 07/03/2006 11:08:01 AM PDT by Sentis (You said the world doesn't need salvation so why do I hear it calling out for a Savior.)
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To: Robwin

Ohhh your such a wit. Please beat me again. I deserve such scorn from your kind. :)


62 posted on 07/03/2006 11:09:44 AM PDT by Sentis (You said the world doesn't need salvation so why do I hear it calling out for a Savior.)
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To: Sentis
Trust me you would fit right in. I suggest anyone that thinks that atheists, hindus, buddists, blacks, hispanics or others aren't fit to be conservatives stop posting here and go where your wanted.

So, where do you get the psychotic delusion that I think that atheists, hindus, buddists, blacks, hispanics or others aren't fit to be conservatives?

You are the one who wants to boot others out of the conservative movement, not me.

63 posted on 07/03/2006 11:11:41 AM PDT by Skooz (Chastity prays for me, piety sings...Modesty hides my thighs in her wings...)
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To: gcruse
Either that, or the Creator made you inferior to your pet.

If you want to raise a theological point, it might do you well to actually read the Bible. Your statement shows your theological ignorance.

64 posted on 07/03/2006 11:13:59 AM PDT by Kenny Bunkport
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To: Skooz

Yes but you are defending those who confuse their religion with the conservative political movement. Seems to me you damn yourself by those you defend. I see you as the same as the New York Times. If you defend and support the radical islamics then you must be one or a fellow traveler.


65 posted on 07/03/2006 11:14:52 AM PDT by Sentis (You said the world doesn't need salvation so why do I hear it calling out for a Savior.)
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To: Sentis
Yes but you are defending those who confuse their religion with the conservative political movement.

I didn't defend anyone. I just asked you a question. You posted that you want to banish white Christians from the party and consign them to the darkness of the Left. I saught clarification. Your response was to call me a Nazi.

Seems to me you damn yourself by those you defend.

I defended no one. I merely pointed out your silliness.

I see you as the same as the New York Times.

You seem to know me well, for someone who knows nothing about me.

If you defend and support the radical islamics then you must be one or a fellow traveler.

So, all defense attorneys are guilty of the crimes of those they defend?

66 posted on 07/03/2006 11:20:02 AM PDT by Skooz (Chastity prays for me, piety sings...Modesty hides my thighs in her wings...)
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To: Kenny Bunkport

So you're saying we're not as God created us? That implies he made a mistake the first time. Rather than guess what you mean by biblical ignorance, I'll just repeat he made a dog superior to you, vitamin-C wise, if evolution be heresy.


67 posted on 07/03/2006 11:20:55 AM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com)
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To: Kenny Bunkport
it's evident that this whole discussion about Darwinism on FR has less to do with science, and more to do with a philosophical agenda.

Which will hopefully one day become unnecessary as people strenghthen their religious beliefs sufficiently to not feel threatened by science, and cease asking government to intervene.

68 posted on 07/03/2006 11:21:00 AM PDT by elkfersupper
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To: doc30

And why could they not have been created as is? You know, like dodge has a magna and a Neon - similar only in that they were designed by the same company and for the same roads, but for different purposes.

The paint comes from the same supplier too.


69 posted on 07/03/2006 11:31:23 AM PDT by RobRoy (The Internet is about to do to Evolution what it did to Dan Rather. Information is power.)
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To: RobRoy
And why could they not have been created as is?

No one can prove they weren't. But of course if evolution is not happening, things will die out with every change in climate. And of course, we can observe organisms adapting genetically to changes in environment.

70 posted on 07/03/2006 11:35:51 AM PDT by js1138 (Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!")
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Comment #71 Removed by Moderator

To: doc30
Getting back to the topic of the thread, I find the topic of color vision rather interesting. I have a number of color blind members of my family, including a nephew with total color blindness -- no color receptors at all.

Of course this means he has great difficult with fine detail and requires large print books. As an infant he was thought to be blind.

As a tradeoff, he has phenomenal night vision.
72 posted on 07/03/2006 12:09:43 PM PDT by js1138 (Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!")
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Comment #73 Removed by Moderator

To: Tokra

That life changes and adapts is not unique to the theory of evolution.

A creator would also create life with the ability to 'change and adapt'.

The truth is, there is no evidence that uniquely supports an evolutionary model; therefore, you cannot say that evolution is a 'fact'. It is merely 'defined truth'.

That is, the definition of evolution has been carefully crafted to be consistent w/ the evidence. Unfortunately, this has produced a definition that is also consistent w/ a created biology that is adaptive and 'evolution' has lost any ability to be falsified wrt creation.

In fact, evolution has been *defined* to be consistent with a genome that is in decline. After all, a population that is accumulating deleterious genetic mutations is also 'changing'.

Adaptation, meanwhile, is merely a process of sorting existing information for that which best 'fits' one environment over another. Nothing inconsistent w/ creation there either.

A creator would also create life with the ability to 'change and adapt'.

Perhaps you don't understand that evolution has merely been 'defined' to be true and true believers like yourself are not able to understand that this same 'definition' has also made evolution consistent with a created bioligy that is in decline.

How can you pretend that one 'defined truth' is superior to another when there is no unique evidence?


74 posted on 07/03/2006 12:17:59 PM PDT by GourmetDan
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To: GourmetDan
Perhaps you don't understand that evolution has merely been 'defined' to be true and true believers like yourself are not able to understand that this same 'definition' has also made evolution consistent with a created bioligy that is in decline.

I believe that this lack of understanding is a result of absolutely no evidence existing to support this claim.
75 posted on 07/03/2006 12:32:07 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: GourmetDan
How can you pretend that one 'defined truth' is superior to another when there is no unique evidence?

There's plenty of evidence. When people can look at vestigal legs on a snake and still claim that it is not "proof" of evolution - then there is nothing that will ever prove it to them. What would your explanation of legs on a snake be??

I know someone who seriously believes the world is flat. All the photos of the earth from space will not convince him. To him they are simply optical illusions. I don't see much difference in him and those who look at evidence of evolution (like vestigal legs on a snake) and refuse to believe what they see, or explain it away with a lot of talk.

I suppose if God Almighty came down on a cloud of Glory and told creationists that He DID create evolution as a means of changing life forms - maybe THEN some of you would finally accept it, though I have my doubts.

76 posted on 07/03/2006 12:39:31 PM PDT by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: Sentis
Nope just the intellectual giants in the Christian camp that confuse conservatism with their religion. We dont need them and they generally turn out to be knuckle dragging racists too and so fit much better with the libs.

Not to mention their rejection of modern medicine while wanting it to do everything possible to save the braindead is just staggeringly hypocritical.

77 posted on 07/03/2006 12:44:02 PM PDT by balrog666 (There is no freedom like knowledge, no slavery like ignorance. - Ali ibn Ali-Talib)
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To: doc30
So, for those that say the eye could not have evolved because it is too complicated, be aware that it has now been shown that our eyes have de-evolved from non-mammilian vertebrates.

Huh? I don't follow your progression in this sentence. If someone doesn't believe the eye evolved, what does the second part of your sentence do to convince him otherwise?
78 posted on 07/03/2006 12:44:15 PM PDT by newguy357
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To: doc30
Rodents leave urine-based scent trails, but urine has a 'UV color' that these birds can see. If you were a kestrel, you could see lines of urine trails zig-zagging across the coutryside and follow a trail to find your lunch.

Thanks for that explanation. That is really cool. Seems kind of unfair, though.
79 posted on 07/03/2006 12:44:30 PM PDT by microgood (Truth is not contingent)
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To: balrog666

Christians reject modern medicine?

Who knew?


80 posted on 07/03/2006 12:47:31 PM PDT by Skooz (Chastity prays for me, piety sings...Modesty hides my thighs in her wings...)
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