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To: wagglebee; Ohioan
Jefferson’s wall separated church and the federal government only. By incorporating the First Amendment non-establishment provision into the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, Black’s wall separates religion and civil government at all levels—federal, state, and local. By extending its prohibitions to state and local jurisdictions, Black turned the First Amendment, as ratified in 1791, on its head. A barrier originally designed, as a matter of federalism, to separate the national and state governments, and thereby to preserve state jurisdiction in matters pertaining to religion, was transformed into an instrument of the federal judiciary to invalidate policies and programs of state and local authorities. As the normative constitutional rule applicable to all relationships between religion and the civil state, the wall that Black built has become the defining structure of a putatively secular polity.

Exactly... we have a FReeper who has a great (free) insight on this subject... I like it so well, I bought his book.

http://www.logical.arts.new.net/

The Conservative Debate Handbook is a great read and FR is greatly blessed to have Ohioan as a member.

32 posted on 06/24/2006 6:26:37 PM PDT by LowOiL ("I am neither . I am a Christocrat" -Benjamin Rush)
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To: Sir Gawain
Ping... this reminds me of some of the older articles you used to post to FR years ago...
34 posted on 06/24/2006 6:30:37 PM PDT by LowOiL ("I am neither . I am a Christocrat" -Benjamin Rush)
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To: LowOiL
Had not been by for a week or so, and just caught you very kind comment in reply #32. Thank you.

Of course, the points made in the essay at the head of this thread are right on the mark. Anyone who understands the history of settlement of the several States will realize how inconceivable the ACLU interpretation of religious freedom actually would have been to the Founding Fathers. They get by with it not only because of the appointment of Leftists to the Federal Courts--particularly during the 1930s through 1960s--but because too few Americans know the history of settlement.

The Constitution, as written, left questions of morality and social custom--as well as Faith and education--wholly to the States, which in turn left much to individual communities. The area where Americans came together as a Nation never embraced such questions; rather it was on the basis of a new found mutual respect, forged on the anvil of the Revolution. Virginia Cavaliers and Massachusetts Puritans did not abandon their distinct characters in 1776 to 1783. They learned that they could come together on common pursuits and common interests, without sacrificing their rights to manage their own affairs. Neither group ever desisted in the slightest from acknowledging their ultimate dependence upon a Creator, and one will look in vain for any evidence of a departure from the custom of the times, by which our honored Founders closed virtually every major public address with what was tantamount to a prayer.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

69 posted on 07/04/2006 10:22:34 AM PDT by Ohioan
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To: LowOiL
Had not been by for a week or so, and just caught you very kind comment in reply #32. Thank you.

Of course, the points made in the essay at the head of this thread are right on the mark. Anyone who understands the history of settlement of the several States will realize how inconceivable the ACLU interpretation of religious freedom actually would have been to the Founding Fathers. They get by with it not only because of the appointment of Leftists to the Federal Courts--particularly during the 1930s through 1960s--but because too few Americans know the history of settlement.

The Constitution, as written, left questions of morality and social custom--as well as Faith and education--wholly to the States, which in turn left much to individual communities. The area where Americans came together as a Nation never embraced such questions; rather it was on the basis of a new found mutual respect, forged on the anvil of the Revolution. Virginia Cavaliers and Massachusetts Puritans did not abandon their distinct characters in 1776 to 1783. They learned that they could come together on common pursuits and common interests, without sacrificing their rights to manage their own affairs. Neither group ever desisted in the slightest from acknowledging their ultimate dependence upon a Creator, and one will look in vain for any evidence of a departure from the custom of the times, by which our honored Founders closed virtually every major public address with what was tantamount to a prayer.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

70 posted on 07/04/2006 10:22:35 AM PDT by Ohioan
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