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Well, the fact is the FACTS are with me. (clip)...outweigh any research done by any professor! It's hard to prove statistically but Trust Me It's the Truth!

You keep asserting this, yet when asked for any kind of verifiable facts, you dance away on excuses like you don't have time to look it up.

I'm sure you don't care, but you're not convincing in the least. I am open to looking at facts. The evidence against becoming ex-gay is scant, but it's at least something. I am not cemented in one position and can easily be swayed by evidence that convinces one way or the other.

I am guessing by your assertions and the lack of evidence at hand that there IS no evidence, that it's all based on personal assertions like yours. If so, just admit it. I won't be convinced, but at least we'll be on the same page.

I'm looking for facts, not someone saying 'Well, it's a fact' without backup--I'm sure you can understand that. I'm ready to be convinced, and if you don't care, that's fine, but if you want to start convincing anyone but yourself, you're going to have to come up with more than "because I say so."

There are numerous links on the linked thread. Check 'em out.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1420619/posts
Root Causes, Homosexual Consequences

BTW, I should have added in my long comment above, that I managed to kick "substance abuse" without any 12 Step programs, rehab or the like. Some people need the support that such groups or facilities offer. I have an old friend who became a heroin addict (I never touched that stuff) and it took 6 months at a livein facility to kick it. And he was a religious believer at the time. Different people need different circumstances or kinds of help. What works for one might not work for another. Does that nullify the benefit of different kinds of programs or help, just because some manage to get free from drugs, alcohol or same sex attraction without?

Darkwolf

You're starting to confuse me. In a previous thread I offered to do some research, and you told me not to bother. I am starting to get confused by your comments and I hope that you are sincere in voicing your concerns. If you are, I am cetainly certainly open to discussion.

To answer your charge, I do care. Unfortunately, I am not a walking encyclopedia and coming up with he depth of argument you seem to require is going to take some time. I do have to pay bills and make a living. I will go through my computer files and some web sites and see what I can come up with that is most convincing. I also have a couple good books. Give me an opportunity.

Let me say a few things from just what I know off the top of my head. I think, first of all, the basic question "what is the proof of successful change from homosexual to heterosexual" is a legitimate one. Believe me, it plagued me for much of my life.

A look at sceintiffic literature will reveal pretty consistently that of people who seek to leave homosexuality through some kind of change therapy, about a third are successful, about a third experience some degree of change but it is not complete, and about a third do not experience change. You need to look especially at the studies that took place before the 1973 decision to remove homosexuality as a psychiatric diagnosis. There are web sites which catalog these studies.

What is significant about psychiatric studies is that the rates of successful change are consistent with other psychiatric disorders, such as anxiety disorders. The ability to treat homosexuality is pretty consistent with our ability to treat other mental disorders, especially other anxiety related disorders (i believe that anxiety is at the core of most homosexuality). To put it another way, our lack of success in helping people change says more about the dismal state of mental health care than it says about whether or not homosexuality is amenable to treatment.

An interesting statistic to look at is this: the percentage of the population that self-identifies as homosexual declines with age. I don't have the exact numbers, but say, for example, 4% of the population identifies themselves as homosexual between the ages of 16 and 20; between the ages of 30 and 40 only 3% of the population identifies as homosexual; between the ages of 40 and 50, only 2% of the population and so on. I don't know the exact numbers, but the drop off is significant. That change cannot be explained solely by higher mortality rates for homosexuals. It seems likely that at least some of the people who are "dropping out of homosexuality" (ceasing to self-identify as homosexuals) are achieving heterosexual functioning.

It's late now Darkwolf. More later.