Posted on 06/06/2006 10:11:12 PM PDT by Panerai
Gov. Mitt Romney says he would be willing to talk about his Mormon religion in broad terms should he run for president but would shy away from debating specific beliefs.
"I think initially some people would say, `Gosh, I don't know much about your faith. Tell me about it.' And I'd probably outline the fundamentals: I'm a religious person, I believe that Jesus Christ is my savior," Romney said during an appearance on PBS's "The Charlie Rose Show." "But then as you get into the details of doctrines, I'd probably say, 'Look, time out.'"
Among other things, Mormons believed in polygamy until 1890 and banned blacks from the priesthood until 1978. They also maintain temples open only to members where rites such as vicarious baptisms for the dead are performed.
Romney also reiterated on the show, which aired Monday, that he believes the question of whether to outlaw abortion should be left up to individual states. It was a nuanced view that allows him to maintain his anti-abortion views while leaving intact Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court ruling allowing abortion.
(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...
My great-great grandfather was Jospeh Leland Heywood. You can find his diaries on the web. He was the first Sherrif of Utah Territory. His second wife Martha Spence Heywood's diaries are published in a book entitled "Not by Bread Alone."
While their stories are interesting...the greatest tradgedy remains unpublished. When JL Heywood was 49 years old, he married my great-great grandmother Mary Bell as his fourth wife, she was 16. As an orphan, whe had been taken into JL Heywoods home at age 8 and raised as his daughter with his other children. When Mary's young male tutor showed interest in marrying her, JL sent him away to another town and married his foster daughter himself! It seems quite cruel and incestous to me.
If you care to read about it the links for JL Heywood diary is http://patriot.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/Diaries&CISOPTR=4245&REC=15
And Martha Spence Heywood....Historians consider her diary of the years 1850 to 1856 one of the best personal accounts of that period in Utah. It documents, among other things, the new territory's intellectual life, the settlement of Nephi, and polygamous family life. Unflinching in her honesty, Martha Heywood records ambivalent feelings about her marriage and the dissatisfaction of some Nephi settlers with her husband's leadership. Her own self-examination was rigorous; and her diary remains a testament to her integrity. http://www.media.utah.edu/UHE/h/HEYWOOD,MARTHA.html
No he/she can't because no one would get involved in Mormonism if they did!
The statement on the authorized Mormon home page says the Mormon "Heavenly Father" is all powerful, all wise, and the ruler of the universe." No knowledgeable Mormon believes that.
Here is the actual Mormon teaching about "Heavenly Father:" His name is Elohim, he lives on a planet near the Great Star Kolob with his thousands of plural wives. He has a father, a grandfather, and no one knows how far back his genealogy extends. He procreated you and me and Jesus and Lucifer. He was part of a Council of Gods who decided to create an earth and people it. All men can become a god just like he is. They can rule their own planets, but they will never rule the universe."
That's the real Mormon story. Nowhere in historic Mormon Theology is there the idea that Elohim is the supreme ruler of the universe, rather he is but one of many in a hierarchy of Gods.
I challenge any Mormon anywhere to prove to me that the Mormon Church has not taught—clearly and consistently—the doctrine as I have described it.
Mormon leaders who decide to disseminate this kind of deceiving information certainly are doing so with full understanding that they are lying. They know what the word universe means. It does not mean a planet, a corner of the universe, a little-bitty part of the universe. The universe is the universe.
All of this is true. The LDS Church is in a lose-lose situation. If they don't pressure on law enforecment to clean it up, then it makes them look like they are tacitly giving the practice their approval. If they DO put pressure on law enforcement to round up those breaking the law, they will publicize a very ugly part of Mormon history.
The problem as I see it is only going to get worse and is about to blow up in their faces. If homos can marry, a man can certainly have more than one wife. When polygamy is no longer a crime, what will the LDS Church do then? Their "lose-lose" situation will become a "disaster-disaster" situation. Plural marriage was a "new and everlasting covenant". The LDS Church did NOT denounce plural marriage, only its illegal practice. Well, if it's no longer illegal, then there's no reason to forbid it.
Anti-Christianity is the cult you should be worried about.
The Beginnings of Polygamy-Timeline
1830 The first edition of the Book of Mormon directly taught against polygamy (plural marriage) calling it "abominable" and being "not right with the Lord". (See Jacob 2:24, 27-28; Jacob 3:5; Mosiah 11:2; Ether 10:5...all quotes from the Book of Mormon)
"And now it came to pass that the people of Nephi, under the reign of the second king, began to grow hard in their hearts, and indulge themselves somewhat in wicked practices, such as like unto David of old desiring many wives and concubines, and also Solomon, his son." (Jacob
1:15) "Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord." (Jacob 2:24, Book of Mormon)
"Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none; for I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts." (Jacob 2:27-28, Book of Mormon)
"Behold, the Lamanites your brethren, whom ye hate because of their filthiness and the cursing which hath come upon their skins, are more righteous than you; for they have not forgotten the commandment of the Lord, which was given unto our father—that they should have save it were one wife, and concubines they should have none, and there should not be whoredoms committed among them. And now, this commandment they observe to keep; wherefore, because of this observance, in keeping this commandment, the Lord God will not destroy them, but will be merciful unto them; and one day they shall become a blessed people." (Jacob 3:5-6, Book of Mormon)
"And it came to pass that Riplakish did not do that which was right in the sight of the Lord, for he did have many wives and concubines, and did lay that upon men’s shoulders which was grievous to be borne.... (Ether 10:5, Book of Mormon)
1831 Joseph Smith wrote the following which appeared on page 91 of the Book of Commandments: "Thou shalt love thy wife with all thy heart, and shall cleave unto her and none else." But later that year (revealed by Joseph Smith in 1831 but not written down until 1861 in a letter from W.W. Phelps to Brigham Young), on July 17th, Joseph Smith gave the following permission/revelation, "...For it is my will that in time, ye should take unto you wives of the Lamanites and Nephites, that their posterity may become white, delightsome and just, for even now their females are more virtuous than the gentiles."
1834 Revealed in the same letter from W.W. Phelps to Brigham Young written in 1861 (see 1831) , W.W. Phelps disclosed the following revelation from Joseph Smith which dates to approximately 1834, "...I asked brother Joseph, privately, how "we" that were mentioned in the revelation could take wives from the "natives" as we were all married men? He replied, instantly "In the same manner that Abraham took Hagar and Keturah; and Jacob took Rachel, Bilhah and Zilpah; by revelation -- the saints of the Lord are always directed by revelation.""
1835 Polygamy began to be practised "in private" by Joseph Smith around this time, while still being publicly denounced right through 1844. The Mormon church denied the practise of polygamy in the 1835 edition of the Doctrine & Covenants but it was removed from the Doctrine & Covenants (D&C) in 1876 when the doctrine of "plural marriage" (polygamy) was inserted in D&C Section 132.
"Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife, and one woman, but one husband, except in the case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again." (1835 edition of the Doctrine and Covenants, Section 101:4) 1840 "In 1840 the doctrine [polygamy] was taught to a few leading brethren who, with the Prophet, secretly married additional wives in the following year..." (The Restored Church, pg. 247)
1843 Joseph Smith allegedly received instruction ("revelation") from God that permitted polygamy to be practiced. (This revelation is Section 132 of the Doctrine and Covenants) Of course, this revelation was kept quiet and shared with Emma, Smith to keep her in line, and several other "inner circle" leaders (who also began to practice polygamy). Polygamy was not announced to the Church as a whole until 1852. It was not committed to print 1876. It was finally voted on in 1880, just ten years before Mormonism was forced to publicly renounce the sealing of plural marriages. Of course, the Church did not end polygamy at that time, but sent polygamists to the deserts of Utah and to Mexico.
1844 On Feb. 1st, Joseph Smith allegedly excomunicated Hiram Brown, an elder of the Mormon church for "preaching" polygamy. (Times and Seasons, vol. 5, page 423) William Law (publisher of "The Nauvoo Expositor") published in his newspaper on June 7th the practise of plural marriage (polygamy) in Nauvoo and Joseph Smith's teachings on multiple gods.
Joseph Smith was so enraged that he ordered the destruction on June 10th of "The Nauvoo Expositor".
On June 25th, Joseph Smith was arrested for and charged with "riot" for the destruction of the newspaper office and he was thrown in the Carthage, Illinois, jail where he was murdered by an angry mob on June 27th.
1852 The practice/doctrine of plural marriage (polygamy) is officially announced on August 28-29th at a public Mormon meeting.
You don't have a clue about LDS temple marriage. I am a Latter Day Saint, I believe in Jesus Christ and the attonement and that he is the son of god. What I don't believe in is appeasement of terrorists (we will fight them some day!) nor abortion rights. As for Romney, I haven't followed his political career, I do know this I am pro life not pro choice.
Many of you don't know what you are talking about, I respect your christian beliefs and will gladly stand by you in any conflict with evil. SO give it a rest....
Mormons are the ones who "claim" to be Christian...it is up to them to show why. If a follower of Islam or Budhism suddenly proclaimed to be "Christian," the onus would fall upon them to show how and why they believe it to be true.
We are free to post reasons why Mormon mythology doesn't line up with Christian mythology (as you put it).....And you are free to disbelieve either one. I for one, can't understand why you would care if the President of the United States believed in Satanism...it's just another "mythology."
Interesting. I'm looking forward to a response, if any.
Hah! Fantastic not-quite-obscure reference!
"The public schools are, as Ann so wonderfully put it, the liberals hope for reproduction."
But I thought liberals wanted everyone to have abortions?
Did you read my post #65 and follow the link? The Church has performed baptism and possibly marriage (by proxy) for Pope John Paul II!!! It is absurd.
Polygamy was largely practiced when the LDS church was in the West and growing. There was a shortage of men and the only way to build the community was through polygamy. I doubt it would interest anyone now.
Interesting story. Yes, cruel things like that happened all the time. They were not isolated. This is why I cringe when I hear anyone regurgitate the polygamy pablum they've been spoonfed about it being for the benefit of the "poor, widowed women". GAG!
Anyone else remember when Al Gore switched sides on the abortion debate? Worked pretty well for his career. I see Romney as another political animal-
Wouldn't it be great if those of us from Ass-achusetts could have someone in office that wasn't either a kiss-ass suckup to Uncle Tedward or a paper tiger?
And that is the lie that Mormons will use if the Bible,which is the Word of God doesn't "line up" with Mormon doctrine
These Scriptures need about the same "translation" as a Stop sign!
WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES
1. The Bible teaches Christ is the only Great High Priest and it can't be passed from one to another: 1 Peter 2:4-10; Hebrews 4:14, 5:9-10, 7:24-25, 8:1-2, 9:24
2. The Bible teaches that marriage of man and women is for this life only: Matt. 22:29-30; Mark 12:24-25; Luke 20:34-36; Romans 7:1-4.
3. The Bible teaches that there is no second chance after death: Proverbs 11:7; Eccl. 9:10; Psalm 49:7-8; Luke 16:26-31; Hebrews 9:27
4. The Bible teaches that God will reprove anyone who says God is like man: Psalm 50:21; Numbers 23:19; Hosea 11:9; Romans 1 :22-23; Psalm 90:2.
5. The Bible teaches that God is a spirit: John 4:24; Luke 24:39; Jeremiah 23:24; Psalm 139:7-10.
6. The Bible teaches that God is the only God: Deuteronomy 4:35 and 6:4; Isaiah 43:10-11 and 44:6-8, and He created the heavens, earth and man out of nothing: Hebrews 11:3; Genesis 1:1; Colossians 1:16-17; John 1:1-4; Romans 11:34-36; Job 38; Jeremiah 10:11-12; Psalm 102:25; Psalm 90:2.
7. The Bible teaches that we should have no other gods before God: Exodus 34:14; Deuteronomy 5:7-9.
8. The Bible teaches that they were fools who changed the uncorruptible God into an image like corruptible man: Romans 1:22-23; Psalm 50:21; Numbers 23:19; Hosea 11:9.
9. The Bible teaches that they will be brought down to the pit who say, "I am a god.": Genesis 3:4-5; Isaiah 14:12-15 and 44:6; Psalm 50:21; Ezekiel 28:1-10.
10. The Bible teaches that God does not change: Isaiah 43:10-11; Malachi 3:6; I Samuel 15:29; John 1:1, 14; Hebrews 1:12 and 13:8; James 1:17; Titus 1:2.
11. The Bible teaches that the virgin was with child from the Holy Spirit: Matthew 1:18-23; Luke 1:34-35.
12. The Bible teaches that Jesus created the heavens and the angels, including Lucifer, who is a fallen angel: Isaiah 14:12-15; Psalm 33:6; Hebrews 11:3; Philippians 2:5-11; Colossians 1:15-17 and 2:9; John 1:3.
13. The Bible teaches that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever: Hebrews 13:8.
14. The Bible teaches that Jesus had no home and there is no evidence in the Bible that Jesus ever had any wives or children.: Matthew 8:20;
15. The Bible teaches that the blood of Jesus cleanses us from ALL sin: Romans 5:8-9; I John 1 :7-10; Psalm 130:3-4; Ephesians 2:13-16; Colossians 2:13; I Corinthians 15:3-4.
Wrong, Wrong and Wrong. Joseph Smith started the practice of polygamy and never set foot in Utah. THERE WAS NOT A SHORTAGE OF MEN!!! The "only way to build the community"??? Quit spewing this CRAP!
This is incorrect. Eternal marriage is a "new and everlasting covenant", whether polygamous or not. The polygamy wasn't the important part.
He started it but it was not a wide practice. AND QUIT YELLING TO ME!!
Perhaps Mormonism arose as competition to another crack-pot group in Central New York- the Oneida Community founded by John Humphries.
Yet there is no marriage in Heaven.
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