Posted on 05/30/2006 7:02:57 AM PDT by gallaxyglue
By KAREN W. ARENSON Published: May 30, 2006 It is a kind of Alice-in-Wonderland idea. If you do not finish high school, head straight for college. Suzanne DeChillo/The New York Times ...But many colleges — public and private, two-year and four-year — will accept students who have not graduated from high school or earned equivalency degrees...In New York, the issue flared in a budget battle this spring. There are nearly 400,000 students like Ms. Pointer nationwide, accounting for 2 percent of all college students, 3 percent at community colleges and 4 percent at commercial, or profit-making, colleges, according to a survey by the United States Education Department in 2003-4. That is up from 1.4 percent of all college students four years earlier....(S)ome educators say even students who could not complete high school should be allowed to attend college. Nowhere is this contradiction more evident than in California. This year, 47,000 high school seniors, about 10 percent of the class, have not passed the exit examinations required to graduate from high school. They can still enroll in many colleges, although they are no longer eligible for state tuition grants. State Senator Deborah Ortiz, Democrat of Sacramento, has proposed legislation to change that. "As long as the opportunity to go to college exists for students without a diploma," Ms. Ortiz said, "qualifying students from poor or low-income families should remain entitled to college financial aid."
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
Oh i agree with you totally. Read my post #39 on the same thread. I feel that better explains my views.
To sum it up, life is what you make it. No piece of paper can determine that, but for some it can be a great help.
LOL!
The fact that 22% of college students today are taking business courses is to me more of a reflection on how difficult the government has made doing business, than the fact that actually doing business is difficult. Who was Bill Gates' business prof and does he now work for MS?
I think for people not in your type courses, one of the best reasons to go on is the people you meet and the relationships (networks, if you will) that are formed. But so many kids would just get such a headstart by skipping college and plunging right in to the work force.
I know a 25 yo down on Cape Cod who owns his own 28' boat, sets lobster pots and fishes for whatever's running, works construction on the side, laying fieldstone walls and fireplaces. He did a roof for a remodel a friend and myself did in Marston's Mills last fall. The guy came at 4 in the afternoon, set up lights and was gone before midnight.
He owns his own home outright, the boat is paid for, two trucks and a car with no notes, so it's still out there for someone who can apply themselves and bust hump.
Now being that age and in graduate school you'd owe how much? Hmmmm...
(Yes, I'm kidding. But, still...)
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You don't understand that "I was like" is shorthand, you have to know the unspoken part. "I was like an idiot, so I said.................."
It depends on what degree she is choosing. If she is majoring in diesel mechanics at a community college , I do not see why she must have four years of high school.
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Diesel mechanics is a great trade, on the other hand it is training, not education. Young people today are sorely lacking in education which is what is taught in liberal arts schools. No young person should be sent into the world totally ignorant of literature, history, government etc. When they are sent out with no education they are liable to be ignorant enough to vote Democrat.
It depends on what degree she is choosing. If she is majoring in diesel mechanics at a community college , I do not see why she must have four years of high school.
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Diesel mechanics is a great trade, on the other hand it is training, not education. Young people today are sorely lacking in education which is what is taught in liberal arts schools. No young person should be sent into the world totally ignorant of literature, history, government etc. When they are sent out with no education they are liable to be ignorant enough to vote Democrat.
Regarding Bill Gates, dont forget Michael Dell, who went to UT too! He was making more out of his dorm room selling spare computer parts than he could have made after graduation. Needless to say, he dropped out and is doing alright for himself. =P
And yeah, like I said, college isnt for everyone. But for those who do go, the networking is a priceless experience.
Good for your friend. Like you said, you can really do well for yourself if you dont mind doing a little hard work.
Regarding debt, I've been on academic scholarship (private, not government...thank you SAT!) for the past 4 years, with one more semester to go. This is my third summer internship with my company, and I use the money to pay for my own college. My parents insist on helping me out, but I won't let them. I tell them that they did plenty for my first 17 years. =P
Yeah, we are. I missed the memo that said "last ones" takes an apostrophe. When did that change?
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I was at a historic museum in Virginia over the weekend and there was a reproduction of a historic document with the same error, using an apostrophe before the s when the word was plural, not possessive. I told my wife that I thought it was a mistake made by the person reproducing the document because people long ago were more careful. This type of error is unforgiveable.
I am finally finishing up a four year degree as a very "adult" student. I am glad I am doing it. I may balk at some of the courses I have taken and the political correctness that has overtaken the subject matter in some areas but I think some of these classes are absolutely invaluable and wish they were part of high school curricula (especially law and finance).
I only wish I had time to take more classes since there is so much to learn. It is one thing to say you are glad you didn't attend college (or a technical school for those whose career plans fit that option) if you have never gone but I haven't heard too many folks say that they regretted going to college when they have a degree in hand!
Very interesting. Going from high school to a CC, for me at least, was like night and day. The quality of the instruction was better and we sped through the material. The courses were ten times more interesting and the tests seemed gear toward to getting a right answer.
I once turned in a thirty page english paper during my sophmore year in high school. I received a zero on it. When I inquired as to why. I was told that my thesis did not reconcile with any of the current literary criticism of the work. And then the teacher added smugly "And I stay current with all known literary criticisms of this work." It was at this point, I strongly considered dropping out. I mean, who says something like that?
Not to totally insult all high school teachers, but my theory is most of them haven't emotionally gotten past that stage in their lives, thus their first career inclination is to return to their level of comfort.
Good for you!
Our niece won the state math prize in high school and went through UMass and did her graduate work at UChicago all on scholarships. Smart young woman making herself a good living.
The public high schools are far from egalitarian institutions which up lift the common masses from the shackles of ignorance.The children in honors and advanced classes would be stupid to go to a community college. However the children who are being dumbed down in regular and slow classes would be better off in community colleges. Most of the material taught in the regular and basic classes has been watered down. I think most people gain more from an afternoon spent in a library than four years spent in a public high school. If you feel that children should be exposed to culture in school then lock horns with the educational establishment who seem to use the public schools as a dumbing down tool.
"I realized what my priorities were," she said. "My priority is not my boyfriend. It is not hanging out. College was what I really wanted to do. I was talking to my mother a couple of weeks ago. She said, 'This is the longest you've stuck with anything.'
She's ready to learn now, something which she never learned in the institution of K-12 public schooling. I don't agree with giving ANY kid, no matter how academically talented, public assistance, but why keep someone out of college who's paying their own way and making the grade ?
Up until the 60's, many engineers - electrical, mehanical and otherwise - only possessed a high school education and then a few years at trade school. I believe the % of engineers with college training was only 40%. We sent men to the moon with technology developed by high school graduates.
I think most people gain more from an afternoon spent in a library than four years spent in a public high school.
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I agree, my point is that I think people should be taught these subjects and when I went to High School we were taught history, literature, geography, civics etc.
This is old news. And I do mean old. I went straight to university without completing high school in 1973.
I have a better grasp of the big picture in business processes and project management than my more narrowly-trained colleagues. I can write better, more well-reasoned reports and give more cogent training for the same reason.
Liberal arts, when taught effectively, do teach critical thinking and logical reasoning "about something", unlike the empty critical thinking taught in schools today.
When I socialize with clients, I have a wider range of ways to connect than those who concentrated more narrowly.
Those who concentrate very narrowly on their technical specialty are certainly valuable and necessary(who would want Albert Einstein to have majored in psychology in college???), but my point is there is a place for all kinds of skills learned in a wide variety of ways, and you just don't usually know in advance how something might be of benefit in the future.
I believe the book "Cultural Literacy" (author escapes me at the moment - is it E. Hirsch?) points out the value of a broad base of information, citing how even routine business letters used to include allusions to Shakespeare that could convey a wealth and breadth of information to the reader that simple mechanical prose cannot.
good for her! what's she doing now?
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