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To: dsc

"Before you start arguing that those men should have been sent to their deaths, shoulder a musket and fall in with them."

I have. In fact, I'm the fourth generation of Wombat's to have worn my country's uniform. In fact, I'm certain that the explosives I hung on the wings of A-6's, A-7's and F-14's were used to kill people, some of them (by no means all) innocent and unconnected in any way to the armed forces of their country, and many uninvolved in direct combat.

In that regard, I not only have the right, but the responsibility, to question how and by what means my country achievs military victory. Even moreso, because I have the blood of other people on my hands, regardless of whether I actually dropped a bomb or pulled a trigger. I'm just as responsible for their deaths as the pilots I armed.

The sanctity of civilians in war has been the subject of international accords, Geneva conventions, political and religious treatises, for near on 2,000 years. That such accords or premises are routinely violated (and grossly violated in the Second World War) has nothing to do with "hundreds of thousands of casualties" on our side; the defense of Japan was ultimately a naval problem and with the Japanese fleet on the bottom, Japan was a sitting duck; all that was required was time to allow nature take it's course. The defense of Germany was one of avoiding a war on multiple fronts which could not be won; Hitler took care of that all on his own. Hitler lost the war (realistically) at Dunkirk, not Stalingrad.

The Allies were unwilling to invest the time, especially with the Soviet Union bearing the brunt of the war and bleeding Germany white, and English and American public opinion clamoring for an immediate end to hostilities as quickly as possible. Even if that meant bombing women and children.

Strategic bombing was a mistake that, in retrospect, has been justified as having saved lives, worn down the Luftwaffe, or slowed down our enemy's ability to wage war. It did nothing of the sort. "We saved lives with strategic bombing" is a post-war justification for doing the unthinkable, and doing it with a weapon that promised much and delivered little. In fact, the most effective use of strategic bombers in the war was the Transportation Plan that effectively isolated Normandy from the rest of France. That involved bombing trains, rails, bridges, road nets and canals. Not factories full of civilians, nor apartment blocks full of the same.

One only has to look at the increased war production figures for Germany from 1942-45 to see how wrong the theories of strategic bombing were. Germany wa sproducing more weapons than ever before in those years, what it was missing was the trained men to utilize them. One only has to look at the corresponding declining numbers for Japan, as it's merchant fleet was sent to the bottom and it's reserves of raw materials, trained pilots and sailors also were attritted, to see the same thing.


240 posted on 05/31/2006 9:22:43 AM PDT by Wombat101 (Islam: Turning everything it touches to Shi'ite since 632 AD...)
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To: Wombat101

"I have."

You haven't. Your situation was quite different from that of the infantrymen who were preparing to invade the Japanese homeland in 1945, or who might have had to invade other islands if bombing of Japan had not helped destroy their will to continue.

That said, the rest of your post is so thoroughly riven with sophistry and rewritten history that I despair of a productive discussion.


241 posted on 05/31/2006 12:43:23 PM PDT by dsc
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To: Wombat101
I'm having a bit of difficulty following your thinking. Are you supporting the thought, "because we used a nuke and didn't invade Japan the old fashioned way', our skirts are now dirty?
245 posted on 05/31/2006 1:01:20 PM PDT by investigateworld (Abortion stops a beating heart)
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To: Wombat101
the defense of Japan was ultimately a naval problem and with the Japanese fleet on the bottom, Japan was a sitting duck; all that was required was time to allow nature take it's course.

Just out of curiosity, are you familiar with what was happening in mainland China near the end of the war (with, say, the Kwantung Army) at the hands of what you call a "sitting duck"?

And given what was happening, what the long-term effects of "allowing nature (to) take it's course" would have been?
246 posted on 05/31/2006 1:17:16 PM PDT by tanknetter
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To: Wombat101
the defense of Japan was ultimately a naval problem and with the Japanese fleet on the bottom, Japan was a sitting duck; all that was required was time to allow nature take it's course

Also, while you're at it, care to enlighten us as to your knowledge of what the "sitting duck" was preparing to do near the end of the war with its Aichi M6A1 Seiran aircraft and i400-class submarines?
247 posted on 05/31/2006 1:21:35 PM PDT by tanknetter
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