Posted on 05/23/2006 9:27:27 AM PDT by floridaobserver
Though the developer of a technology that uses water to produce a flammable gas says it provides a solution to high gas prices plaguing the nation, detractors claim the businessman's idea is a scam.
Denny Klein is president of Hydrogen Technologies Applications in Clearwater, Fla. His patented machine uses an electrical charge to separate the atoms of H2O into HHO, a gas he calls "Aquygen."
"You get a huge energy response," Klein told the Tampa Tribune. "But this gas is very, very safe."
He first used the fuel to power a welding tool, but soon tried it out in a hybrid automobile.
The flame, though on its own registers just 259 degrees Fahrenheit, heats up to the melting point of whatever substance it touches, explained Steve Lusko, project manager for Hydrogen Technologies Applications.
"For example, when you ignite our flame and touch it to steel, it will cut right through it at 1,400 degrees," Lusko told WND.
"It will melt a hole right through a brick at 4,500 degrees. … It reacts to whatever it touches."
So, Lusko says, the gas has the ability to bond to whatever fuel it is mixed with, like gasoline in a hybrid car.
"Upon combustion, you get a dramatic increase in energy BTUs," he said, "and you get an equally dramatic decrease in emission pollution, because the burn is so highly efficient, what would have come out of the tailpipe as an emission ends up getting burned up and used."
An "electrolyzer" in Klein's 1994 Ford Escort uses electricity from the alternator to initiate the electrolysis process to make the HHO gas out of water, explained Lusko. That gas is then pumped to the manifold and into the gas tank.
"The gas then bonds with the gasoline in the gas tank," Lusko said, "and then upon combustion, that's when you get the reaction, giving you higher gas mileage and cleaner emissions."
Why not run a car with exclusively HHO gas?
"We have combustion engines here that have run completely on our Aquygen," Lusko said, "but it would be a matter of engineering."
Lusko says in tests the mileage of the hybrid vehicle has improved anywhere from 25 to 53 percent.
The problem with this plan is that, while you can in fact release energy by reacting hydrogen and oxygen, you can only release as much energy as it took to split up the water into its component elements in the first place, less some percent due to inefficiency. In other words, it's a zero-sum game.
...only in the movies. In real life, they end up getting sued and/or imprisoned for defrauding their investors. In 2006, for example, Dennis Lee (another "energy from water" con man making essentially the same claims as the guy in this article) is being pursued by the Attorney General in Washington. as well as AR ME ID KY TN VT OR CA WY and NM
"Most of these end with the inventor either being bought off or even killed by big oil."
Correction:
Most of these end with the inventor either being ARRESTED or even killed by PEOPLE WHO LOST THEIR LIFE SAVINGS.
But ... but ... what about all those attempts by "Big Whale Oil" to bump off John D. Rockefeller?
I think in this Inventor's case, Ignorance is Bliss. He is an unschooled inventor, so maybe he doesn't realize that the whole thing is a scam.
In other words, he would easily pass any lie detector test if he were to testify on his invention.
No it's not, ask teddie, the drunk, he was driving it when he went for test run with Mary-Jo in the front seat.
Here's what shows it's a scam to me:
The only tests using an internal combustion engine were in 2003, and conducted under their own auspices. Three years later, the tests still haven't been conducted by an independent testing lab or university.
Yes, most of the negative vibes directed at Dr Mills comes from oil stock holders, it's called vested interests. But there is another reason : if a gallon of water contains 37 times the heat energy that you get from gasoline, via the hydrino process, and there is 384,000,000 cubic MILES of H2O in the oceans, then where does the WASTE HEAT go when everyone in the world(7 x 10^9 people)gets a virtually free KW, then MW, then GW? If you think global warming is bad now....Thus, the movie : Chain Reaction, brings the question into focus : giving TOO MUCH ENERGY to everyone can be like letting a 5 year old drive a semitruck on the freeway. Thus one has to be careful how these wonderful discoveries are introduced. The ideal is a cleaner and greener world, not a hot, stinking garbage dump. Mature, self disciplined adults or messy children, which way shall it be with us?
That's not necessary at all. "Debunking" something as silly as this should not require specific knowledge of the field involved (although of course that's always nice.) And it shouldn't require a college degree. People should be taught the basics of scientific methodology before graduating high school.
It's entirely possible that someone might invent a combination universal solvent and perpetual motion device someday. But if that happens it won't be "proved" by a demonstration on TV; it will be submitted as a testable theory and the phenomenon will be duplicated by people all over the world.
I omitted the "peer review" because my point was that I want to be one of the peers to review it.
Anyone who wants to can review a paper or try to replicate results. They only call it a "peer review" to limit the cacophony of 10,000 voices all chiming in at the same time.
That's something a lot of people don't understand. Science is fundamentally different from any other endeavor. If someone like God, the homos who appoint themselves the "Academy," the plastic-haired freak on the Nightly News, or any other Ultimate Authority says that a work of art is good, then it is good -- end of story. And the millions of idiots who pay hard-earned money to see something else are all "wrong."
That's how liberal arts work. But science is utterly different. If some bozo off the street nobody's ever heard of shows that Einstein's pet theory is a load of crap, then EVERYONE with an understanding of the subject matter will be able to see that he is right and Einstein is wrong. And it could not possibly matter less how gloriously "authoritative" the proponents happen to deem themselves.
Good analysis. At the same Dennis Lee science show he had 2 parallel rods about 24" long at a 5 deg slant and 1/2" gap between them. Steel ball bearing rolled UP the slope all by itself. No wires, no other things...now how can this be? Took a little while to figure it out : non-uniform magnetic field : it gets stronger toward the upper end, thus the steel ball is being pulled toward the stronger field. Thus, a sort of circus trick....But Dennis Lee aside, what is YOUR solution(s)to the energy problems? These tin horn dictators are hassling us over oil, n.gas; where are your solutions to freedom from foreign oil?
Yes, well, in that same Dennis Lee science show he demonstrated the Pantone catalyic chamber that removed all CO2, other pollutants from a simple otto cycle engine. It has a blue glow inside and only pure O2 comes out. Strange story there. Appearently it's real enough but this Pantone guy is a complete dufuss. A lot of investors put a LOT of money into developing this concept. He promptly turned around and spent all their money on fancy cars, houses, etc; and didn't lift a finger to develop/market it. They threw him in jail. This was last autumn, haven't heard anything since...
These sorts of stories really drive me crazy. I am looking for investors in my own endeavor and they want to eat my lunch for peanuts. Where do these bozos find these people?
Of course, passing p-chem is not necessary. Notice that I put a smiley face ":)" after my p-chem comment. There were some engineers who replied and seemed to notice it.
...and yes, I have read C.P. Snow's "The Two Cultures."
I'm not trying to start a flame war here, mainly because I think we are saying the same thing. You are just doing it more prosaically and without my hyperbole.
Your message interests me, you sound like a kindred soul. I've invented LOTS of ideas but avoid patents, lawyers like the plague, they'll suck you dry in a flash, and nothing to show for it but a worthless piece of paper. We do have one faint hope though : european billionaires with a "provident fund". My collegue has been hoping to see some of that $15B as an on-going grant to develop nuc-rad-waste remediation technology for 4 years now, still waiting. I chide him that he's turning into a spider web covered skeleton sitting by the phone, awaiting the CALL. Anyway, mail me privately and maybe we can share some ideas. IF, a big IF, the major funding comes through on one or more of the dozens of new energy concepts we have discovered/invented over the years; perhaps we can incorporate some of your concepts too. I did get a call from my senator's office today about one of my ideas : MHD - "plasma film-belt", and possible development. So, don't despair, hope springs eternal in the human breast.
THe author claims to show the infrared spectra of H2, O2 and his magical HHO gases. Infrared spectroscopy involves the absorption of infrared light by a molecule. The frequency of the light involved needs to match a transition state in the molcule for absorption to occurr. For molecules, infrared energy corresponds to vibrational energy. Single atoms don't have vibrational modes so infrared doesn't apply to them. But there is another requirement. The molecular vibration must have a transition dipole moment. In other words, the molecular vibration, in its simplest terms, can be represented by a stretching vibration between to atoms in the molecule. It's like two balls connected by a spring. If the frequency of the light matches the frequency of the stretching oscillation, then the light can be absorbed.
There is another requirement, however. There must be a charge difference between the two atoms. This is called a dipole. If there is no dipole, no charge difference between the atoms, there is no vibrational absorption. There are more rules than this, but it would be too much to get into symmetry arguments here. Carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide each have strong transition dipole moments so they are very good at absorbing infrared light. And that is the origin on CO2 being a 'greenhouse' gas. But oxygen and hydrogen gases, O2 and H2, do not have transition dipole moments so they do not absorb infrared light at all. It doesn't happen. They are also highly symmetric molecules and highly symmetric vibrations in highly symmetric nonpolar molecules have vibrational modes that are infrared inactive. They may be Raman active (another type of vibrational spectroscopy which is complimentary to infrared) but it has polarizability rules regarding observation of vibrational bands. I've seen nitrogen in Raman spectroscopy, but I don't know about O2 or H2. I do vibrational spectroscopy for a living and those two gases are undetectable by the infrared technique.
Also, since O2 and H2 are diatomic, these molecules can only have 1 vibrational mode. That's a simple stretching vibration. Each molecule would, in theory, have only 1 vibrational peak in the spectrum. The spectra shown in the paper have multiple bands. Therefore, they are not what he claims. They are a lie. Period. Secondly, no baseline is visible in the graphs. Whatever spectrum is shown, it is shifted above the 100%T line and we are only seeing the tips of the peaks in the graphs. This is a very, very deceptive way of showing spectra. Also, the spectra look like manipulated spectra of some organics species.
Threfore, I can state with authority that the spectra shown in that unpublished 'scientific' paper are bogus. Not a single chart is representative of anything meaningful. I do this type of work for a living and I would be fired if I produced data like that. It's an embarassment to spectroscopists everywhere.
I also went back to the website and but the paper doesn't seem available anymore. I wanted to see what lab did this work. The name didn't sound familiar to me and I know most of the places local to this guy. I'm in the same county. Someone should ask him for an MSDS, if the material is available, and see what it says. That should also be worth a few laughs.
"But Dennis Lee aside, what is YOUR solution(s)to the energy problems? These tin horn dictators are hassling us over oil, n.gas; where are your solutions to freedom from foreign oil?"
We have plenty of energy available, it's just not as cheap as foreign oil.
This is the scientific White Paper explaining in detail the new element HHO. It seems to be legit.
http://hytechapps.com/science/Santilli.htm
A first basic feature in the production of Aquygen™ Gas is that there is no evaporation process at all, and, in any case, the electric energy available is basically insufficient for evaporation. This feature alone establishes that the H2O Model 1500 Aquygen™ Gas Generator produces a "new form of water" that is gaseous and combustible! This is the first identification on record of the unknown chemical composition of Aquygen™ Gas, its relationship with the H2O Model 1500 Aquygen™ Gas Generator, and some of its applications.
The second important feature of Aquygen™ Gas is that it exhibits a widely varying energy content in BTU's, ranging from a relatively cold flame in open air, to large releases of thermal energy, depending on its use. This is additional evidence of fundamental novelty in the structure of Aquygen™ Gas. In fact, all known fuels have a fixed value of energy content in BTU/scf. Also, the variable character of the energy content of the Aquygen™ Gas is clear evidence that the gas has a structure other than a molecular structure, namely, that its chemical composition includes bonds beyond those of valence type.
The third important feature of Aquygen™ Gas is that it does not require any oxygen for its combustion, since it contains in its interior all oxygen needed for combustion. By recalling that other fuels require atmospheric oxygen for their combustion, thus causing a serious environmental problem know as oxygen depletion, the capability to have combustion without any oxygen depletion renders the Aquygen™ Gas particularly important on environmental grounds.
The fourth important feature of Aquygen™ Gas is its anomalous adhesion to gases, liquids and solids.
The fifth important feature of Aquygen™ Gas is that it does not follow the fundamental PVT law for gases.
The sixth important feature of the Aquygen™ Gas is that it bonds to gaseous fuels (such as natural gas, magnegas fuel, and others) and liquid fuels (such as diesel, gasoline, liquid petroleum, and others), thus significantly improving their thermal content as well as the environmental quality of their exhaust.
The seventh and most important feature of Aquygen™ Gas is that it instantaneously melts tungsten, bricks, and other highly refractive substances. In particular, measurements have established the remarkable capability of combusted Aquygen™ Gas instantaneously reaching temperatures up to 9,000 degrees C, under which virtually all substances on Earth can be sublimated.
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