[cake_crumb]

"It's pretty simple, actually. There is actual legislation on the table and Bush is pushing the Senate version over the House"

The stridency and venom began years before this legislation was written, though I agree the president should be demanding specific changes to the Senate plan to bring it in line with the house plan. Try again.

[Warren_Piece]

I've often thought that we should have a single "true believers vs pragmatists" thread, where we could plug in the issue of the day. It would be over a milion posts by now. Mostly "RINO!" "Unappeasable!" it's funny that no matter what the issue, we always seem to break into the same camps.

[dirtboy]

The stridency and venom began years before this legislation was written,

Bush brought that on himself with not being serious about enforcement. But the rhetoric clearly escalated once the legislative process started.

I agree the president should be demanding specific changes to the Senate plan to bring it in line with the house plan.

Instead, he is counting on Dems and RINOs to override conservatives. Go figure.