Posted on 05/15/2006 12:39:01 PM PDT by LSUfan
"former Carter National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski declared that "we are not at war."
Not exactly the brightest light in the firmament. Sharpen up, Zbiggy!
I vote for "deliberate Democrat liar."
Sorry, but I don't think it's that obvious. Otherwise we would not have a pretty intelligent former Secretary of State saying "we're not at war".
Your examples prove my point. Surely you are not saying we are at war with Iraq? After all they are now in the process of seating the first democratically elected coalition government that our troops fought to install (er, facilitate). So at most we are at war with "some terrorist elements in Iraq" - but not with Iraq.
Perhaps they are in cahoots with Iran, perhaps they are not. It is by no means clear. No doubt they all hate us, but still lots of countries (with real armies and tanks and things) hated us throughout the cold war and we didn't go to war with them.
The British fought the IRA for twenty years. But, to my way of thinking it never rose to a war. That's how I view the USA vs. Fascist Ismlamists contest we are in today.
Can you site any evidence to support your characterization of Brzezinski? I'm pretty sure he (an most everyone else) would credit the Japanese with "actually conducting a war". Sinking most of our Pacific Fleet in a surprise attack is pretty intelligent, from a tactical point of view. I'm pretty sure he considers the Vietnamese to have fought a 'legitimate war'. They managed to win, after all.
He might not be my favorite politico, but I don't believe he holds the beliefs you have attributed to him.
At most, as a National Security Associate or whatever he was he might have asked the military "can you rescue the hotages?". And if an operation was undertaken it was because the military agreed to do it. The failure of the mission was not that it was a bad idea, it was that our pilots screwed up and crashed their helicopters in the staging of it. Hard to blame that on some policy wonk in Washington.
None the less I think ZB speaks for a lot of people in that the Islamic Fascists just don't seem that scary at this point. 9/11 looks more and more like a 'lucky shot' and Iraq looks like a good place to let the various odd flavors of Mohammed ispired insanity duke it out, with us watching safely from the sidelines.
What I am arguing is that the level of threat, as percieved by the average Joe doesn't rise to the level of requiring a war in response. And that because of that we have not actually fought much of a war in Iraq. Instead we let the opposing side slink off, put Saddam on trial and are now in PREVENT defense to stop a civil war from breaking out.
Actual war, to my mind, involves a clear enemy who you go out with all due haste to destroy utterly. We have a good track record at winning real wars (American Revolution, Civil War, WW2, Korea fought to a standstill).
Because we don't see anyone as that bad we're not really using our Army to fight, they are heavily armed police and sacrifical targets of opportunity for Jihadi losers. That's unfortunate.
This is what happens when you declare war on a concept, or military tactic (terror) or even a group which is hostile but indistinguishable from those surrounding it.
If we had declared War on Iraq that would have made sense. All of Iraq would have been our target and we could have extended the War (blowing things up, killing men with guns on sight) for quite a while. We could have demanded complete unilateral surrender (like we did in Japan).
Wars have a way of being resolved. If you totally commit (as the USA, Japan, England, Russia and Germany did in WW2) someone is going to win and someone is going to lose rather quickly.
Low level military-as-police can't tell the good-guys from the bad (and care) pseudo-wars can go on indefinately.
Or, put another way we didn't enter WW2 by declaring war on "the Emperor and imperial army of Japan" and then try to limit our target to some self-defined subset of Japan. Ditto for Germany.
Here is what our MARINE CORP is doing! This is EXHIBIT A in the ZB theory of "not a war": Do you think we had articles about saving 'innocent Germans' in mid-war of WW2?
Civil Affairs Marines provide aid to combat-torn Iraqi families
Marine Corps News ^ | Cpl. Antonio Rosas
AL QA’IM, Iraq (May 15, 2006) -- A 28-year-old Iraqi woman has told Marines and sailors in region of western Al Anbar Province that all she wants is to be able to walk again.
The woman from Karabilah, Iraq, is missing both of her legs.
But the Marines of the 3rd Civil Affairs Group – a U.S. military unit responsible for assisting Iraqi communities with rebuilding local government infrastructure, commerce and economies – are doing something about it.
They’re jumpstarting the lengthy process of finding aid for the woman, who lost both of her legs during combat operations conducted by Coalition Forces against insurgents last year in her hometown near the Iraq-Syria border.
The civil affairs group is working with Iraqi doctors at provincial-level medical facilities where resources for rehabilitation programs or further care are limited. Ultimately, the woman will need a referral to a higher level of care near the nation’s capital at Baghdad for treatment, according to CAG officials.
Marines and sailors from the shock trauma platoon, forward resuscitative surgical suite aboard this U.S. military camp conducted a medical evaluation of the woman for an updated prognosis of her condition.
They also evaluated two Iraqi children, a seven-year-old boy and a four-year-old girl, with genetic diseases. The families sought the help of the Marines because they did not know who to turn to for help.
“Once we establish what’s wrong physically, we can engage with the Iraqi health system and government agencies to see if we can get help,” said Lt. Col. Larry L. White, the civil military operations center director for the Al Qa’im region.
While the civil affairs group in the Al Qa’im region spend most of their days assisting local towns with rebuilding local commerce and government, providing humanitarian aid is not new to the Marines, who receive requests for help from locals on a regular basis, according to the Marines here.
Though the Marines can’t always provide immediate assistance on their own, they can lead people in the right direction to get the aid they need.
“We’re out there with the people at the civil military operations center and that’s where people go for help,” said White.
The patients, whom are of no relation to each other, sought the aid of the Marines several days ago. The Marines helping the woman are currently stationed in the city of Husaybah in the Al Qa’im region of western Al Anbar Province.
“They just came into the center and asked for help,” said White, 39, who has spearheaded the project by arranging transportation for the families from Husaybah to a U.S. military camp at Al Qa’im. “This is a humanitarian gesture and we are doing what we can to help them.”
Amal communicated through an interpreter that she hoped the Marines were going to fix everything and make everything good.
“The woman is seeing that some progress is being made by coming to this place,” said the interpreter. “She is a good woman who has hope.”
Although she lost so much as a result of collateral damage from the fighting, Amal confided that the problem began with the insurgents who came to her home and threatened her family.
Though the woman said she appreciates any help Coalition Forces can provide, she lost more than just her legs last year.
“My sister, my daughter and my mother died during the fighting,” she said. “Terrorists came to my house in Karabilah and said, ‘You’re with us or we will kill you.’”
Caught in the middle of the fighting between Americans and insurgents, Amal watched her family members die.
“She could be hateful, bitter and angry, but instead she’s reaching out to the people that hurt her,” said Navy Capt. Don Elshire, shock trauma platoon, forward resuscitative surgical suite officer-in-charge. “She has a big space in her heart for forgiveness, otherwise she wouldn’t be here today.”
The woman communicated through an interpreter that she was confident that someone from America would help her.
“I just want to be able to walk again,” said Amal. “I’ve seen the Americans help others.”
Although the process of acquiring financial and medical aid is quite a lengthy process, according to White, a St. Paul, Minn. native, the Iraqis are not discouraged as they don’t have many options to choose from in this remote corner of Iraq where medical facilities are scarce. The only options in this region of Iraq are a string of clinics where care is limited to less severe cases.
With medical facilities unable to provide a higher level of care, the families often have to travel a long distance to receive adequate care, according to White.
That’s not to say that the civil affairs Marines are not working around the clock to establish satisfactory medical facilities where Iraqis won’t have to travel to cities such as Ramadi or Fallujah for care.
For Iraqis near the Syrian border, high-level health care means a referral to a larger health facility hundreds of miles away.
“It’s time-consuming and right now the ability to make the system work is frustrating,” said White. “We are trying to build the legitimacy of their health system so they can handle these cases. We need to get the Iraqi system up to speed.”
On track to rebuilding that system, the Marines have a number of projects in the works that will address health care, such as construction of several satellite clinics by the end of the month.
A trip to a hospital in another city means hours on Iraq’s dangerous roads, and may take several days, said one of the patient’s family members through an interpreter.
“Anything we can do to help the Iraqi doctors do better, we will do,” said Elshire. “The Iraqis have the doctor’s to do the work, they just don’t have the resources.”
Email Cpl. Rosas at rosasa@gcemnf-wiraq.usmc.mil
Not all Central and Eastern Europeans are like that, but sometimes they open their mouth and they give themselves away. The Brits for all their fuzzy-wuzzy and "naitivvveees" talk at least respect their enemies even if they're half naked savages chucking spears.
The Democratic party dominated US Congress had, in the interim, neutralized and then disposed of Nixon. They allowed the NVA to take the country without resistance much as they'd signed over Cambodia to Pol Pot's tender mercies. Sometimes I wonder if Teddy Kennedy is disappointed that the NVA did not conduct as extensive a genocidal campaign against innocent women and children as did his friends in the Khmer Rouge.
What Brzezinski thought of one bunch of primitives (in his mind) conquering another bunch of primitives (in his mind) is beside the point.
When it comes to Japan, Brzezinski's people (he was much too young to be a participant) were engaged in conflict with other Europeans. No doubt most Central and Eastern Europeans had no interest whatsoever in Japan beyond its ability to tie down the Brits for awhile.
His loss of Iran to Islamofascist fanatics (meaning Ayatollahs sponsored by French intelligence) is also very much in line with the expected attitude, to wit, that only educated, advanced, white Western people can really conduct war ~ all others are amateurs and not worth discussing.
Time, however, has shown that many of the things done in WWI by that leftwingnutcase Wilson are simply not needed, although he did have a good idea about imprisoning political enemies for the duration.
What in Blazes do you think is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Tanks. AC-130s. Cobras and Apaches. MOUT.
Shots fired from and at both sides.
This isn't a 'peace keeping' mission. It was a military invasion.
It is war.
Sure, the South caved, the Dems aided and abetted, etc. All that just proves my point that you shouldn't fight wars by 1/2 way measures.
By the way, you failed to offer any evidence, other than mentioning the comment that we began with, as to what ZB thinks. Ever read any of his books?
I think that if you had some first hand information you'd revise your opinion.
Z PigSKI is a Jimmy Carter liberal who knows nothing about national security.
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