[tonycavanagh]

re ;What the EU is really saying is they would rather risk nuclear war against somebody else than risk even a hint of bad press themselves.

And what makes you think that.

You think we are all idiots this side of the Atlantic.

If Iran became nuclear capable, and did decide to attack Israel, Israel would wipe Iran of the Map, and if the Iranian leadership was as mad as some on this site say.

Do you think Iran would stop at Israel, they would turn the whole of the Middle East into a nuclear conflagration, wipe out the oil which would cause the collapse of the worlds economy, Europe would collapse into anarchy as would Japan and to a certain extent America it depends if you could meet all your projected energy needs.

It has nothing to do with good press bad press, but more of safe guarding our energy supplies.

What is the current American governments view

The United States is repeating its position that the best way to resolve the stand-off with Iran over its nuclear program is through the United Nations. A top U.S. official made his comments in response to questions about whether Washington would negotiate with Tehran directly.

White House National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley says the United States has been supportive of European efforts to negotiate with Iran. He told CNN's Late Edition, Washington's position has not changed.

"The Europeans made a proposal to Iran, a year and a half ago, and we indicated clearly we were going to facilitate that proposal," said Stephen Hadley. "So, the forum has now shifted to a discussion in the U.N. Security Council, where the international community, as a whole, of which the United States is a part, can make clear to Iran what it needs to do."

So it looks as if your government is backing the EU.

[JasonC]

What makes me think that is I have actual eyes, and the stuff behind them isn't pudding. The EU is trying to appease Iran, offering them more and more stuff in a desparate and futile attempt to save face. Iran already took such offers and cheated, then spurned them when renewed, and Europe is so bankrupt they simply repeat themselves. They are sputtering impotent fools.

Two years ago the US gave the EU the lead on Iran, deferring to its preferred policies. It did so in an attempt to restore NATO unity, thinking it would be crucial longer term in dealing with this stuff. The EU took that as the victory, instead of as the task. The US basically said "fine, show me, take care of this one your way". Not because we thought it would work but because we know it doesn't, and that the EU has yet to admit that to themselves.

So, two years on, with the US doing everything the EU asked of it, the IAEA finishes its absurd series of hoop jumping exercises and refers the matter to the UN security council. Whereupon the EU notices action might be in the offing, and feels the cold draft of numbing fear. And reiterates its pleas to Iran to please please please for the love of God accept our tribute and don't hurt us. Which Iran laughs at, all the way to the oil-premium bank. They don't beg for what they can simply take.

Is the result of the experience new found unity within NATO? No it is not. The Russians support Iran as they always have. The EU is willing to talk forever and do anything everyone on earth already agrees on. But Russia doesn't agree, so that means they aren't willing to do anything. Thus they can't afford to have an actual security council vote, and have kicked it off another couple months. To beg the Iranians some more to please let them go.

The Americans set the whole thing up to force the Europeans to choose. Either you stand with the US against nuclear proliferation, or you let proliferation happen. There is no other position. Iran won't give you one, Russia won't give you one, you can't buy it because it won't stay bought and the oil producers can take more themselves, without asking.

Eventually the EU will decide to vote for trivial sanctions and the Russians will veto them. Then the EU will impose a few mild travel bans and issue a few more sternly worded leading editorials. But will refuse to ever cross Russia, take any meaningful non-military action, to side with the US, or to act themselves.

Privately they may hope the US goes it alone again and takes care of it - but political weakness here will prevent that, whether they realize it or not. Privately they may hope Israel will take care of it and take all the resulting heat. It is hardly likely, and if tried will not be remotely sufficient.

So Iran will get nuclear weapons and the world will simply watch.

[familyop]

"If Iran became nuclear capable, and did decide to attack Israel, Israel would wipe Iran of the Map, and if the Iranian leadership was as mad as some on this site say."

Israel also has an anti-ballistic missile defense and will no doubt continue improving that. Iran could probably do nothing more than lose by launching on Israel (which was recently, publicly said by our Air Force to have around 400 nuclear weapons itself). The rest of the west would not fear Iran as a result but would shut Iran down.

Remember that the ultimate objective of the mad mullahs and their friends is to conquer/convert the whole world.

After asking myself as to how the mullahs could murder thousands of people in another country and receive enough of its own casualties to further rouse their Islamist friends in other countries, I arrive at the reason for Iran seeking and modifying its missiles for further range than necessary to hit Israel. The Iranian leaders are probably looking to eventually launch on a country that has no anti-ballistic missile defense and to be feared by western culture countries other than Israel.

In other words, Ahmadinejad and his associates (even the advising, retired General in Pakistan) try to restrict threats to those against Israel in order to keep the rest of the west (all of us) as lax as possible while planning future nuclear attacks against the rest of us. ...not to forget Iran's promises to export nuclear capabilities to other Islamist regimes and that Khan brought nuclear technology to Syria.

The leaders of Iran are mad, in some ways, but they might sometimes pretend to be more mad than they are in perpetuating ruses. ...something like North Korea but even more willing to carry out attacks. They are more suicidal, but they are shrewd in some ways.

As for Russia, she's destabilized the Middle East before and is attempting to do so again for her own desires of "empire."