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A lesson in immigration: Guest worker experiments transformed Europe
Boston Globe ^ | April 19, 2006 | Colin Nickerson

Posted on 05/13/2006 9:10:56 AM PDT by Ooh-Ah

BERLIN -- Germany needed workers. Turks needed work.

So starting in 1961, the country invited Turkish ''guest workers" to come do the dirty jobs that Germans didn't want. ...

Nobody grasped that the country -- and the continent, because neighboring nations soon undertook similar experiments -- was on the brink of a transformation whose effects are still reverberating across Europe. ...

In Germany, guest workers -- mostly poorly educated young men who were issued special visas allowing them entry for one or two years to take unskilled jobs -- helped the nation to become the third-richest in the world. The fabulous post-war prosperity of ... West European countries was also boosted by immigrant labor, mainly from Turkey and North Africa.

... recently, as economic growth has slowed, swelling numbers of Muslim immigrants from the Middle East and North Africa -- many of them arriving without any visas, or overstaying their visas and melting into the ethnic suburbs -- are being blamed for social stresses from urban blight to chaotic schools. ...

For decades, there were no efforts to integrate the newcomers. They were entitled to social benefits, but not citizenship. Their children could attend schools, but little effort was made to give them language skills. Far from a melting pot, Europe in the post-World War II era became the realm of ''parallel societies," in which native and immigrant populations occupied the same countries but shared little common ground.

Now, the presence of millions of largely unassimilated newcomers, coupled with terrorist attacks in London and Madrid, has triggered furious debates in Europe over national identity and the future of immigration. ...

''The parents took jobs that Germans didn't want -- and most of that first generation did all right," ... ''But the young people don't even get the bad jobs. ...

(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Germany; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: lessons; turkey

1 posted on 05/13/2006 9:11:00 AM PDT by Ooh-Ah
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To: Ooh-Ah

Just came across this.
Troops On The Border?http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/


2 posted on 05/13/2006 9:13:25 AM PDT by AliVeritas (The beatings will continue until morale improves.)
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To: Ooh-Ah

They started out just doing the jobs that Germans wouldn't do


3 posted on 05/13/2006 9:13:40 AM PDT by digger48
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To: Ooh-Ah

Related article here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1624701/posts


4 posted on 05/13/2006 9:13:53 AM PDT by LSUfan
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To: Ooh-Ah

Civil war in Europe is brewing.........and America will bail it out again.


5 posted on 05/13/2006 9:14:07 AM PDT by CROSSHIGHWAYMAN (I'm a proud GRINGO......is Bill Clinton still the president?...Seems that way sometimes!)
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To: Ooh-Ah
In Germany, guest workers -- mostly poorly educated young men who were issued special visas allowing them entry for one or two years to take unskilled jobs -- helped the nation to become the third-richest in the world.

This is right. Guest workers are a boon initially then a bane.

For a citizen, you are born, then for 18 years, you are a huge leach on the economy, then you are productive until you retire, then you are again a huge leech on the economy.

Guest workers are great because the first 18 years are paid for by some other country. But you need to get rid of them before they have their own kids or retire.

Bush's first guest worker proposal recognized this. But the idiot conservative right did not recognize this.

6 posted on 05/13/2006 9:16:26 AM PDT by staytrue (Moonbat conservatives-those who would rather have the democrats win.)
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To: CROSSHIGHWAYMAN

"Civil war is brewing in Europe....and America will bail it out again."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Only if we are not busy with our own.


7 posted on 05/13/2006 9:16:42 AM PDT by Roccus
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To: AliVeritas
The winds have shifted," said Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.), who will serve on the conference committee that will negotiate a final deal with the House. "The American people are outraged at all of us for not controlling our borders and coming up with a legal system that works. They are not looking for revenge. They are looking for results."

Does it bother anyone else that Panty-boy is popping up in the most contentious dealings?

8 posted on 05/13/2006 9:18:18 AM PDT by digger48
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To: JustPiper

Just glanced at this - looks good. Why the guest worker crap is crap.


9 posted on 05/13/2006 9:19:04 AM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: Roccus
Only if we are not busy with our own.

Who said America can't fight two wars at the same time ?

10 posted on 05/13/2006 9:21:45 AM PDT by HarmlessLovableFuzzball
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To: staytrue
Bush's first guest worker proposal recognized this. But the idiot conservative right did not recognize this.

B.S. Let's take your dubious proposition that Bush wants guest workers over 18 and then have them return to their home country at retirement.

How are you planning to prevent the guest workers from having children who become U.S. citizens at birth? Bush has no intention of changing that. There is a village looking for its idiot...and that person isn't found on the conservative right.

11 posted on 05/13/2006 9:23:36 AM PDT by peyton randolph (Time for an electoral revolution where the ballot box is the guillotine)
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To: HarmlessLovableFuzzball

If one of them is our own civil war, me.


12 posted on 05/13/2006 9:25:54 AM PDT by Roccus
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To: AliVeritas
" Lorie Byrd assumes that Bush will use the occasion just to re-emphasize the old themes of hardworking immigrants doing jobs that Americans won't do, and so on; if she's proven right, it will be a mistake of gargantuan proportions. Karl Rove might get nostalgic for approval numbers in the low 30s if that happens.

Let's not assume before we actually hear the speech. If that were to happen, what Byrd suggests just thinking about it made me ill in the pit of my stomach.

NO amnesty, place the Troops on the border, and deport the invaders would be the best speech ever.

13 posted on 05/13/2006 9:40:26 AM PDT by stopem (America is NOT Fox's employment agency!! Butt out Vincente.)
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To: Ooh-Ah
Nobody grasped that the country -- and the continent, because neighboring nations soon undertook similar experiments -- was on the brink of a transformation whose effects are still reverberating across Europe.

This is wrong.

Lots of people grasped the consequences of immigration...but they wanted quick money, long-term consequences be damned. Let's be clear that these low-end jobs were taken by foreigners...because Germans wouldn't take them at the wages offered, and didn't need to...and because the people who did the hiring often had to compete against companies which used cheap foreign labor.

We had a bracero program for many years, non-european immigrants had a harder time here than europeans - especially in the 19th century, and our early immigrants were given very little help - even when compared to today's muslim immigrants to europe.

So why have we done so much better than Europeans? Partly because we are a nation of immigrants - almost anyone could become a citizen with its legal rights and be welcomed to a much greater extent than in europe. But mostly it was the opportunity this country offered. Work hard, get an education, succeed.

Some of that is still in place and just as attractive as ever. But the ever-increasing price of land, and of other basic resources, is having an effect.

14 posted on 05/13/2006 9:49:30 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: peyton randolph

bush's first proposal was guest workers could come for 3 years and then would have to go home for 5 before coming again.

It was brilliant.


15 posted on 05/13/2006 9:50:25 AM PDT by staytrue (Moonbat conservatives-those who would rather have the democrats win.)
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To: peyton randolph
Very good article ... especially for a liberal rag like the Boston Globe.

We definitely need to secure the borders. The "Guest Worker" program is backed by many "fiscal conservatives" whose only interest is what benefits their bottom line (and don't give a damn about what's good for the country).

Today's "guest worker" programs = tomorrow's headaches.

We definitely need to secure our borders and severely restrict immigration.

The one silver lining - at least the majority of our illegals are not Muslim.
16 posted on 05/13/2006 9:52:31 AM PDT by BW2221
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To: Roccus
Europe's problem is worse than ours. Their problem is with Muslims coupled with very low European birthrates. At least Mexicans are Christians and there is the possibility of assimilation.

Still Bush had better not fail to do his part to secure our borders. National Guard, Army, whatever it takes.
17 posted on 05/13/2006 9:54:01 AM PDT by GeorgefromGeorgia
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To: Ooh-Ah

Reminder to the pro-amnesty crowd:

There's nothing in the McCain/Kennedy bill to stop MUSLIM illegals from getting amnesty.

Amnesty undermines homeland security!


18 posted on 05/13/2006 10:11:02 AM PDT by nj26 (Border Security=Homeland Security... Put Our Military on the Border! (Proud2BNRA))
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To: Ooh-Ah

Not ever, never, was there a wild open influx across borders by guest workers.
Guests are registered immigrants.
Registration extends beyong name date etc. into your address of where you live.
When moving one re-registers with at the new town and address.
These days there are controls on construction sites for illegals to not make hardships for locals even harder in a country that just announced progress after unemployment dropped by 1/4%, namely from 11.5 to 11.25%.


19 posted on 05/13/2006 11:50:05 AM PDT by hermgem
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To: Roccus

The problems of Europe or 'Eurabia' with its dhimmi political correcteness and hordes of unassimilated Muslims whose culture and religion is antithetical to European tradition are really not comparable with our problem: a pack of Roman Catholic Mexicans, even with Mexican nationalist sentiments, are far less incindiary, *and* far more likely to Americanize with the passing of a generation than Europe's Muslims are to Europeanize.


20 posted on 05/13/2006 8:18:55 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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