[Owen]

Let's get some rational thought engaged, okay?

1) Slavery is not permitted in the US. Captured illegals cannot be forced to build a fence as part of any sentencing -- regardless of the zero probability of this sort of thing surviving a "cruel and unusual punishment" challenge.

2) The US prison population of the US is about 3 million people. And they are full. Many are full with illegals who committed other crimes. Given that they are full, there is nowhere to put illegals who are awaiting a deportation hearing. Don't suggest tent installations. Even if they were funded, there is no way whatsoever that would survive a concentration camp array of verbage. It's Not Going To Happen.

3) From day one, improved border security has been step #1 of Bush's plan. All attention was focused on later parts of that plan, but border security was always the first item. Bush can move rightward on this matter without changing anything significant in his plan by simply inserting a time line. Seal the border. Then Wait 6 Years. There will be many fewer left at that point. Only then look into dealing with whoever is left after the attempts to visit family at home result essentially in self deportation (because they can't get back in).

4) Because US demographics define a situation where the reality is NOT one of "work that Americans refuse to do", but rather "there are not enough working age Americans to do all the work a 12 trillion dollar economy has", only after 6 years of sealed border do we address punishing those still present and shipping them to the border for recycling.

[Warren_Piece]

1) Slavery is not permitted in the US. Captured illegals cannot be forced to build a fence as part of any sentencing -- regardless of the zero probability of this sort of thing surviving a "cruel and unusual punishment" challenge.

When someone first suggested this, I wanted to add: "Yeah, and if the illegals give us any lip, we'll make them make bricks without straw!"

[clawrence3]

Thank you for your rational thoughts.

[SUSSA]

Put them on chain gangs. Arizona and Florida have chain gangs. Maybe other states do as well. There’s no reason the feds can’t have them. The feds could then make a profit off these criminals who have been sucking us dry.

It would be real good to put the criminal employers on there with the aliens. Let a few CEOs, and homeowners too cheap to pay the full price to get their grass cut, do a year or two on a chain gang and nobody would ever hire an illegal alien again.

[Wimpy329]

Rational thought, I like it!

I've noted some National Guard cheap shots here, (i.e. - "Will they be there to escort illegals?" and "Will they be there to keep tabs on the Minutemen?"). I'll take it as simply the result of being misinformed about the Guard or an opportunity to make a "cute" remark. I'm not interested in a flame war.
Some actual information: The National Guard is composed of two parts, the Air National Guard and the Army National Guard. Most states and territories have units of both. The National Guard is what the US Constitution refers to in Article I, Section 8, Clause 15 and 16 as the militia. The name National Guard came about by subsequent legislation. Day to day the National Guard is governed by the provisions of Title 32 of the United States Code and its chain of command is through a state officer known (in most cases) as The Adjutant General to the Governor. This is a difference between the Guard and the active duty forces and the Reserve forces (Army Reserve, Air Force Reserve, Navy and Marine Corp Reserves). Active duty and Reserves are governed under Title 10 of the US Code and the chain of command runs through the Secretary of Defense to the President. The Posse Comitatus act applies to Title 10 forces and generally prevents the use of title 10 forces in domestic law enforcement. There are exceptions and there are provisions for suspension as has been detailed elsewhere.

Most states have entered into an agreement called EMAC that allows states to support one another in times of emergency (most NG troops supported the Katrina effort under EMAC, once some of the bugs got worked out). I noted one poster suggested states call out their Guard units themselves. Here's the deal with the Guard - day-to-day, we're cheap - small full time force, large numbers who are only paid for drill once a month and a couple of weeks a year normally. The last few years haven't been normal, and the Guard is expensive when in full time Federal service in large numbers (such as airports after Sept 11). Most states can't afford to have the Guard on extended duty on their own nickel (even wildfire support, flood relief, etc usually is reimbursed to the states after disaster declarations open the taps on Federal money).

The elegant thing about having the Guard on the borders is that when the rotation of a unit is complete, and its members go back to their civilian lives they are completely free to talk of their experiences in a way that active duty forces may not be. Also citizen soldiers and citizen airmen are politically tuned to their communities and nation, and understand we should not be there to harass law abiding citizens or to be pawns in the internal politics of Federal agencies.

The best thing the FReeper community could do at this point is to support vocally, through Congressional delegations and this forum, passage of legislation now coming up in the House to give the National Guard a seat at the JCS table, and preserve the independence of the Guard.

[kellynla]

I just love you Bush apologists
and you're "talking points" are so neat even if so ill informed.

" Slavery is not permitted in the US. Captured illegals cannot be forced to build a fence as part of any sentencing -- regardless of the zero probability of this sort of thing surviving a "cruel and unusual punishment" challenge"

No law says prisoners, even illegal alien prisoners can't build the fence.(although I would prefer to DEPORT ALL ILLEGAL ALIEN INCARCERATED...why should we pay $50K a year to incarcerate other countries' criminals)


" The US prison population of the US is about 3 million people. And they are full. Many are full with illegals who committed other crimes. Given that they are full, there is nowhere to put illegals who are awaiting a deportation hearing. Don't suggest tent installations. Even if they were funded, there is no way whatsoever that would survive a concentration camp array of verbage. It's Not Going To Happen."

Again, deport all incarcerated illegal aliens(after we build a wall and secure the borders)


"From day one, improved border security has been step #1 of Bush's plan. All attention was focused on later parts of that plan, but border security was always the first item. Bush can move rightward on this matter without changing anything significant in his plan by simply inserting a time line. Seal the border. Then Wait 6 Years. There will be many fewer left at that point. Only then look into dealing with whoever is left after the attempts to visit family at home result essentially in self deportation (because they can't get back in). "

Well it's been over FIVE FRIGGIN YEARS NOW AND 12 MILLION ILLEGALS LATER!


"Because US demographics define a situation where the reality but rather "there are not enough working age Americans to do all the work a 12 trillion dollar economy has", only after 6 years of sealed border do we address punishing those still present and shipping them to the border for recycling"

Well according to Bush,"is NOT one of "work that Americans refuse to do", you are WRONG.

He claims the illegals are doing jobs Americans won't

I just don't know how we managed for five hundred friggin' years without illegals. ROFLMAO

I suggest you come up with some better "talking points"
from the Gelding Old Party 'cause those you've posted have about as much credibility as a screen door on a submarine!!

[kellynla]

"there is nowhere to put illegals who are awaiting a deportation hearing?"

"deportation hearing?" ROFLMAO

oh and FYI there are literally DOZENS OF EMPTY MILITARY BASES throughout America awaiting your friends. :-]


"Deport 'em all, IKE did it, so can Bush!"

[usapatriot28]

1) Slavery is not permitted in the US. Captured illegals cannot be forced to build a fence as part of any sentencing -- regardless of the zero probability of this sort of thing surviving a "cruel and unusual punishment" challenge.

I don't think that is true. Making people convicted of crimes perform work as punishment happens all the time. True there aren't too many chain gangs any more, but those that have been struck down have done so because of the treatment of the prisoners while working, not the fact that they had to work. Perhaps you were referring to the 13th Amendment which is pretty clear on the issue:

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

But I agree with you, that the minute a plan like this were to go into effect there would be a gaggle of lawsuits filed by every civil rights organization in the country. It wouldn't last a day before being struck down.

[jackv]

Appreciate the reasoning, however most of these border folks act like this issue came up over night and is all Bush's fault. Never mind the folks not enforcing their own local laws, never mind it all started with Reagan years ago, never mind what or how to get rid of all the illegals. Its all Bush's fault and though this was an issue 2 years ago, 4 years ago, TODAY IT'S AN EMERGENCY or else!!!
As usual reactionary conservatives eating their own because of their so-called "principles".
Read my tag-line!

[bray]

Rational discussion is disallowed in these Bush/Mexican hatefests. Don't expect any serious answers outside of the usual Rockefeller Republican responses. You are seriously asking to be zotted.

Pray for W and Our Troops

[oceanview]

it need not be that complex - border security, an improved method for employment ID via new social security cards, and employer sanctions - give me those things for 3 years, and let's see how many illegals deport themselves. my guess is - alot. then, we can assess what should be done with those who remain - certainly, those with american citizen children are going to be put on some path to legalization, and even though I know alot of freepers don't like the anchor baby concept - we have to get real, the families with citizen children are not going to be deported.

if we can get a process in place that works - they we can look at a guest worker program a few years from now. personally, I think that without access to this low cost labor, american business will adapt their operations, and we'll find we don't need as much of this labor as we think.

[carenot]

1) Slavery is not permitted in the US. Captured illegals cannot be forced to build a fence as part of any sentencing -- regardless of the zero probability of this sort of thing surviving a "cruel and unusual punishment" challenge.

Amendment XIII. fn5 [ Annotations ] Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.