Creationism dismissed as 'a kind of paganism' by Vatican's astronomer

The Scotsman ^ | May 5, 2006 | IAN JOHNSTON

[coladirienzi]

The "Vatican Astronomer". I had no idea they had such a position available. Is there an opening for a "Vatican Petroleum Engineer", maybe a "Vatican Geologist"?

Although not a Catholic, (obviously doctrinal purity is not a job requirement for these non-theological jobs), I would like to propose myself as the official "Vatican NFL Anaiyst", and I'll work for the NFL rookie minimum.

On second thought, maybe the Vatican just ought to stick to its "core" business.

[PatrickHenry]

Evolution Ping The List-O-Links

A conservative, pro-evolution science list, now with over 370 names. See the list's explanation, then FReepmail to be added or dropped. To assist beginners: But it's "just a theory", Evo-Troll's Toolkit, and How to argue against a scientific theory.

[js1138]

On second thought, maybe the Vatican just ought to stick to its "core" business.

It would be good if religion stuck to its core business and left descriptions of the world to science. Those who try to use the Bible as a science textbook are continually being embarrassed.

[Uri’el-2012]

BELIEVING that God created the universe in six days is a form of superstitious paganism,

the Vatican astronomer Guy Consolmagno claimed yesterday.

Brother Consolmagno, who works in a Vatican observatory in Arizona
and as curator of the Vatican meteorite collection in Italy, said a "destructive myth"
had developed in modern society that religion and science were competing ideologies.

I guess if Guy Consolmagno keeps his job as the Vatican astronomer,
then he is speaking for the Corporation, the Vatican.

b'shem Y'shua

[SoothingDave]

On second thought, maybe the Vatican just ought to stick to its "core" business.

Since part of the Church's "core business" is understanding and relating God's revelation of Himself, and since God reveals Himself indirectly through nature, it is part of the Church's "core business" to understand nature.

Unlike other faiths, the Catholic Church knows scientific truth is not an enemy of God. She has nothing to fear and only more to learn by studying God's creation.

SD

[SoothingDave]

Brother Consolmagno, who works in a Vatican observatory in Arizona and as curator of the Vatican meteorite collection in Italy, said a "destructive myth" had developed in modern society that religion and science were competing ideologies.

I guess if Guy Consolmagno keeps his job as the Vatican astronomer, then he is speaking for the Corporation, the Vatican.

Please clarify. Are you arguing that religion and science are in competition?

SD

[Gumlegs]

Macro-canonism demonstrated.

[bondserv]

Another way to consider it is that God can create the universe as easily as a painter paints a picture. With the stroke of His finger He can stretch light across a Universe. Just as Adam was mature and ready for marrige on the day of his creation, the Universe was mature and ready to be occupied.

Isa 40:22 [It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Gen 5:1 This [is] the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

Deu 4:32 For ask now of the days that are past, which were before thee, since the day that God created man upon the earth,

Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Mar 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. (red letters indicate words spoken by the Christ in Christian)

Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

Acts 17:26 From one man he created all the nations throughout the whole earth. He decided beforehand which should rise and fall, and he determined their boundaries.

[RightWhale]

I don't believe there is any evidence that there is intelligent life or any life at all now anywhere but on earth, but that belief has nothing to do with theology. We might be it, in which case we are slacking off instead of doing what we are supposed to be doing, which belief has something however remote to do with theology.

[SoothingDave]

Another way to consider it is that God can create the universe as easily as a painter paints a picture. With the stroke of His finger He can stretch light across a Universe. Just as Adam was mature and ready for marrige on the day of his creation, the Universe was mature and ready to be occupied.

So God created a world complete with dinosaur fossils appearing to be millions of years old. Even though dinosaurs never existed and the world in only a few thousand years old.

Why would He do this? Is it to trick people into damnation?

SD

[Kenny Bunk]

Popes used to have an Astrologer.

[Just mythoughts]

Ah you might be correct if the Scripture was silent upon the length of a 'day'.

IIPeter 3 the whole chapter is instruction about what "day" means in time and 'age' where Peter says there are three different heaven/earth ages. That first 'age' wherein there was no man in the flesh.

Peter says that a "day" with the Lord is as a thousand years to us..... and we are not told when the 'beginning' begin, just there was a beginning AND something happened to cause this earth to become void and without form.

[Uri’el-2012]

Please clarify. Are you arguing that religion and science are in competition?

SD

66 posted on 05/05/2006 11:59:41 AM MDT by SoothingDave

Check out books by Gerald Schroeder

b'shem Y'shua

[WOSG]

Fascinating view ... My Christian friend has a similar view, that the whole idea of religion and science being separate realms is wrong for both. Interestingly, that friend is also a creationist.

I too agree with it. Faith is informed by reason, and reason alone cannot understand the world without getting bootstrapped by faith....

[TChris]

Peter says that a "day" with the Lord is as a thousand years to us...

Yes, I'm aware of that scripture too. However, I'm not convinced that it was written to be a precise conversion factor, but may have been a figure of speech to illustrate that time is an entirely different thing to the Creator than to mortal men.

[WOSG]

"When the church was all powerfull it did a lot of damage to good science. "

That's not a 'church' thing, that's a 'power corrupts' thing. Now that the EPA is all powerful, it too does a log of damage to good science (viz. ALAR scam, second-hand smoke lies, etc)

Few people know that the whooe Galileo episode was due to politics, specifically the politics of an anti-clerical agitator who was using astronomy to make his points ...

On the flip side of this, all Western Colleges and Universities evolved out of the church-and-monastic-order tradition, and literacy and learning itself were kept alive by Christian monastaries and churches. There would be no "Western civilization" without those institutions.

[redgolum]

Catholic ping for you two (dangus and NYer).

If the guys is quoted correctly, and he really believes that creation ex nihilo (I hope I didn't misspell that) is paganism, then he is by definition an apostate. Augustine and Aquinas had very good explanations of that.

Not meaning to start a fight here, but something about this story stinks.

[Mrs. Darla Ruth Schwerin]

"BELIEVING that God created the universe in six days is a form of superstitious paganism, the Vatican astronomer Guy Consolmagno claimed yesterday."

What an interesting statement that appears to be endorsed by the Vatican...

[therut]

I have seen this guy give a lecture. Something about his theology is out of wack. I'm not say the earth was created 6,000 years ago but, he does not seem to really believe in Jesus and God. He hims and haws about it.

[WOSG]

"OK, but is it faith if your are hoping for something that is untrue? I would argue that it is not true faith. If it is, then Christianity has no claim to faith any more than a Buddhist or Muslim, since they all believe in things they do not see. The difference is truth. Of all the differing beliefs, they cannot all be true. There must be only one truth, one faith. The rest are false and powerless."

"There is no higher religion than truth." - M. Gandhi