Posted on 05/04/2006 8:53:59 AM PDT by StevenB
Illegal Immigration Counter Protesters Detained
The topic of discussion on the Bryan Suits radio show on 570 KVI earlier this evening was a call by a Seattle area citizen, Eric, who called to say that while thousands of illegal immigrants marched a couple of feet away, 5 United States citizens, he being one of the 5, who should be covered by all of the constitutional amendments, including the 1st and 2nd, were detained by the Seattle Police Department for over 2 hours because... well hard to say really. The reason for Caller Eric's call into the show was, surprise, surprise, the medias total lack of coverage of what should be a fairly big story. U.S. Citizens constitutional rights infringed in order to protect illegal aliens non existent right to hold a protest march.
Now I am a regular listener of the Bryan Suits show, as you should be, especially if you, like me, are in the male 35-64 year old demographic, and as Bryan can testify, I am also a regular emailer, but did not catch every single minute of the show since the 5pm to 8pm time slot is right in that end of the work day - drive home - eat dinner time window so I may have missed out on some of the conversation but here is a recap as best as I can recall. Full disclosure on my part requires that I state my Father is a 25 year retired Seattle Police Officer and I may or may not own a gun, try breaking into my house and you may or may not get an answer right then and there.
It all started with a 911 call from someone the police say was not part of the march claiming that there was a group of people with signs opposed to the marchers who were armed. The caller said he saw a gun holster sticking out from a partly open jacket. The police responded to the call and found the counter protesters and asked if any of them had weapons and sure enough, 3 of the 5 had guns and one had a switchblade or some sort of knife. Caller Eric said he was the one counter protester that did not have a weapon. At that point they were cuffed and taken to the West precinct where they spent the next 2 plus hours being detained until the march was over. The problem is they had not violated the law as the 3 with guns had valid concealed carry permits and as best as I can tell while switchblades appear to be illegal, there was no mention of the person carrying the knife being arrested or charged with a crime.
A Seattle Police officer, who called himself Steve, called into the show to give his version of the events. While for the most part, the stories matched, Office Steve's main point was they felt they were doing the appropriate thing in order to potentially avoid a violent situation and needed to take the people to the station in order to do a proper investigation. As Bryan Suits said, it was kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for the police but he, along with myself, kept asking under what authority were these people detained and why did it take over 2 hours to finish the investigation and let them leave? Bryan's conclusion, as was mine was it seems fairly obvious that the message from the police hierarchy was to hold these people until the march was over. One thing that bothered me about the conversation with Officer Steve was how Suits had to explain to him it is legal to openly carry a firearm. In the State of Washington you must have a concealed carry permit to have a concealed weapon but not to openly carry. Officer Steve made a comment that implied he thought since the holster was partly visible, that was in some way a violation of the law since the weapon was no longer concealed, which is not the case.
Later a female caller gave Bryan a ring and said she was one of the counter protesters who was packing heat. The first question from Bryan was in effect, what were you thinking bringing a gun into a situation like that even though you are totally within your rights to do so? Her response was she always has her gun with her, expect in bars and other "gun free zones" or as I like to call them, "potential sitting duck shooting galleries". She mentioned that the gun was in her purse and they told the officers when they first asked about the weapons that they had valid permits for them. She said once at the station they were told they would be released once the march was over which contradicted what Office Steve said about it just taking that long to finish the investigation and there was no intent to simply hold them until the march was over.
Now last I checked, United States Citizens have a 1st amendment right to free speech and even in Seattle we have a 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms and it sure seems to me like those and potentially others were violated. I do know one thing, if I were one of the Seattle 5, I would "lawyer up" and have filed a lawsuit against the City yesterday, because as I emailed Bryan, until the city gets hit with a lawsuit and pays a big judgment, expect this kind of thing to keep on happening. My one question of any city official is when did POTENTIALLY preventing a violent situation supersede our constitutional rights?
Thursday on the Bryan Suits show, where you can listen to live over the internet by going here, the hope is someone from the City will be on to discuss this topic in further detail. Also, its Led Zeppelin Thursday, so get your request in early.
If anyone has any additional information, clarification or corrections, please post them in the comments and I will update accordingly.
Things can change.
ping
You said:
"I guess maybe some of have a different definition of "the people" than you do. To me "the people" refers to US citizens, not citizens from every other country on the earth especially illegal aliens."
Think what you will, but since the very earliest days of the Republic the courts have recognized that when the Constitution refers to "the people" it refers to those who reside in the United States (allowing for the exception for slaves, - that's always a given and I'll not waste time in this or any future post referring to it) The fact that the Constitution discerns between citizens and "the people" clearly reflects that. The Bill of Rights repeatedly refers to the "the people", while, for instance, as in Article II, it demands that the President be a "citizen" of the U.S. When the Constitution was adopted there was no such thing as an illegal alien since the U.S. had no immigration laws - in fact, we didn't until late in the 19th century.
Legally, the issue of who is covered by Constitutional protections while in the United States is not in dispute, nor has it ever been in any significant fashion, nor will it ever be.
So, in all seriousness, don't waste your time getting your undies in a bundle over it. That's how it is, along with a great many other things that annoy us.
Now, if you want to take up a fight, let's make sure that Constitutional protections are not extended to aliens who are not in the United States, such as those at Gitmo.
APilgrim
More likely, rather than having to make a hard decision that will have one side or the other pissed off at them, they will find an excuse to be elsewhere and let things happen as they will
Too many cops are civil service union workers. Their objective is to make sure they get home tonight and every night thereafter, and that they don't get involved in any incident that prevents them from collecting their pensions.
I want to set the record straight. I listened to the show, and both the caller and the cop agreed on the events. No guns were brandished, and a gun may or may not have been seen by the 911 caller. It was part of a "holster" that was evidently glimpsed.
Some are calling into question the judgement of people bringing legally concealed firearms to an illegal immigrant rally. Remember, this is Seattle, where the police sat back and watched while a young man, Kris Kime, was beaten to death for trying to save a young woman from being assaulted. The Kime incident, like the rally, had racial overtones, which is why the police did not intervene to help the victim. So ask yourself, would you trust the Seattle police to do anything to help you if you were attacked by illegal Mexican immigrants?
This is a classic example of why the founding fathers put the 2nd amendment in the Bill of Rights. Without the means to defend themselves, people would be too intimidated to voice their opinions, thus being forced to abnegate their 1st amendment rights.
It is truly appalling to see people on a conservative forum denouncing American citizens for exercising their consitutional rights. This attitude shows why the government is all too willing to ignore the will of the people on issues like immigration.
I have nothing but contempt for those who support locking up Americans for legally taking a stand in support of their country and the law. Does anyone else see the irony of law-abiding Americans being locked up while thousands of ILLEGAL foreigners demonstrate their defiance of our sovereignty and our laws?
This is sickening.
VERY well put! Bravo.
Well stated. I remember it well.
I live in the area. A few years back there was an episode where a high school(?) (if I remember correctly) party was crashed by a bunch of Mexican thug types who upon entering announced "we are here to kick white peoples ass" then proceeded to assault as many as possible. Of course the racial part of this was left out of local news, it did make local Conservative talk radio.
Point is Seattle has serious racial problems. I do not blame these folks for packing at all.
"So, American citizens can violate the law, just not non-American citizens, in your opinion?"
The Americans were not violating any laws, while the illegal aliens were.
"Illegal aliens actually to have the Constitutional right to peaceably assemble."
Bull$**t. Illegal aliens are breaking the law every day they remain in the USA, just by being here. They do not have the right to even BE here. They do have the right to leave.
The ACLU will not help them. I was in a similar situation, not involving illegals and we got NO support what so ever from the ACLU.
Here it is, turkey.
http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_Am1.html
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble,
and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
The key term is "...the people...". This refers to the people of the United States of America (it's citizens and legal residents), not alien invaders.
You must have a different definition of "Constitutional right" than I and every federal Court have.
Whom did the police detain in this story?
I'm not a Seattle cop, but I will gladly defend their actions in this situation over the "American citizens just exercising their consitutional rights" and trust the police with no reservations - I will let TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig address the Kime incident.
"Is it possible to purchase that 'currency'? I have tons of uses for it."
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's a link to the "currency":
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/dynachrome/heres_my_donation_-_print_version.jpg
I've been reading your posts and I can't help but wonder, what is the country of your birth?
United States of America, you?
"I'm not a Seattle cop, but I will gladly defend their actions in this situation over the "American citizens just exercising their consitutional rights" and trust the police with no reservations - I will let TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig address the Kime incident."
Are you a Seattle city attorney? Your support for the illegal aliens and inherent suspicion of the arrested Americans is curious.
In fact, your attitude is about exactly what one might expect from Seattle's administration, which has repeatedly used the police for political purposes, and then misleadingly claimed to support the police for the very actions they ordered the police to take.
However, my bet is you are simply committed to the immigrant supremacist movement, and you are willing to support the jailing of its opponents, which is exactly what happened. The supreme irony is that the law arguably provides for the jailing of people who materially support illegal immigration.
Keep that in mind.
Then why do you side with the illegal aliens on every thread?
You are just plain wrong.
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