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To: george wythe
Leviticus 13:33-34 (NIV):

33 When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. 34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

11 posted on 04/28/2006 11:28:40 AM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: Lurking Libertarian
Leviticus 13:33-34 (NIV)

I'll see you, and raise you a John 10:1

"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber."

18 posted on 04/28/2006 11:30:20 AM PDT by Egon (We are number one! All others are number two... or lower.)
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To: Lurking Libertarian; george wythe

Titus 3:1

Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good,


22 posted on 04/28/2006 11:33:27 AM PDT by Finop
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To: Lurking Libertarian
Good quote and totally just for this subject. I have just one question to make it justify the notion that illegals should be here if they want. Just one question......

Please provide the quote that specifies the alien arrived in Israel illegally? No interpretation, just the clear words no embellishment needed. Right?
24 posted on 04/28/2006 11:34:59 AM PDT by iluvlucy (swim the Tiber, the water is fine)
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To: Lurking Libertarian
33 When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. 34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

We have treated these aliens very well. They get free medical care, a higher standard of living, and all of their babies get instant citizenship. That would be in fulfillment of the directive above.

However, the directive above says nothing about whether the "alien" is entitled to remain in your land, but merely that if he is in your land, treat him well. We have done that, and now would like for that alien, under the most comfortable of circumstances, to return to his homeland.
31 posted on 04/28/2006 11:39:14 AM PDT by fr_freak
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To: Lurking Libertarian

"I tell you the truth, anyone who sneaks over the wall of a sheepfold, rather than going through the gate, must surely be a thief and a robber![1] John 10:1

Proverbs 17:15 15 Acquitting the guilty and condemning the innocent— the LORD detests them both.

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THE BIBLE AND THE BORDER: ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION FROM A CHRISTIAN PERSPECTIVE

--Robert Klein Engler

HE IS AN ILLINOIS MINUTEMAN!!

(CHICAGO--7 Nov. '05) Most social observers agree that the United States is a very religious country. By all measures of religiosity, the U. S. ranks high. At least 85 percent of the U. S. population claims they believe in God. Church attendance is high in the U. S. and so are donations to religious groups. With such a large number of citizens holding religious beliefs, it is little wonder that these beliefs are beginning to enter the debate over illegal immigration. To some observers it may seem that God and the border patrol are going to meet head-on.

If the U. S. is a very religious country, then it is also a predominantly Christian country. Some 80 percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians. Yale professor S. P. Huntington argues that Anglo-Protestant Christian beliefs are at the core of traditional American values. Anglo-Protestant beliefs, however, have changed and developed through the centuries since the founding of the nation. From the doorway of a storefront church on the south side of Chicago to the stained-glass windows of New York City's St. Patrick's Cathedral, the U. S. offers multiple expressions of the Christian faith.

Many Christians are now caught up in the debate about illegal immigration. Some do not know what to do to stop illegal immigration while at the same time living a faith that asks its believers to practice charity and forgiveness. Other Christians mistakenly believe that groups who are against illegal immigration, groups like the Minuteman Project, are immoral and dangerous. These Christians believe that illegal immigrants should be seen as people who need our assistance and compassion, not our judgment and condemnation.

Does the Bible and Christian theology have anything to add to the illegal immigration debate? Are Christians supposed to act one way or another on this social issue? I think Christianity does have some answers to the moral questions raised by illegal immigration. These answers are to be found both in Christian scripture and theology. In my view it is possible to be both a good Christian and have secure borders. It is also possible to demand illegal immigrants be deported and to practice Christian charity.

In chapter 13 of the apostle Paul's Letter to the Romans, the English translation reads, "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed..." (Romans 13:1-2). Clearly, this is advice to Christians to follow the laws of their nation and to respect the laws of other nations.

When people come to the U. S. illegally, they are committing a crime. They are doing something that is against the governing authorities of the U. S. Illegal immigrants are not good Christians from Paul's perspective. Illegal immigrants may have reasons for breaking U. S. laws, but those reasons do not excuse their illegal actions. We should not let charity and compassion blind us from the criminal act illegal immigrants commit.

Those who work in a law-abiding way against illegal immigration and those who ask that the laws of the U. S. be enforced are being good Christians in doing so. Likewise, those who demand that illegal immigrants be detained and deported respect the governing authorities of their nation. In line with Paul's argument, they are doing what good Christians ought to do.

This is not to say that illegal immigrants should be treated badly. Christians practice charity and respect for the individual, but they do not condone law breaking. Law-abiding citizens of the U. S. have every right to make sure their borders are secure and that illegal immigrants are removed from their country as quickly and humanely as possible.

There are ideas implied in Paul's other writings that also shed light on the contemporary issue of illegal immigration. In his Letter to Philemon, Paul address the issue of what is to be done about a runaway slave. In short, Paul sends back the runaway slave, Onesimus, and encourages his master, Philemon, to accept and forgive him. This may seem an unusual act by Paul to those who know that under Roman law, the master had absolute authority over the life and person of the slave.

Although illegal immigrants are not slaves the way Onesimus was a slave in the apostle Paul's time, we can see illegal immigrants today as persons running away from their moral obligations to improve their own country and not run down ours. If that is the case, then it is certainly a moral and Christian thing to encourage illegal immigrants to return home and make life better in their own country.

Moving from scripture to the domain of Christian theology, we learn that moral actions have both an objective and subjective component. The theologian Thomas Aquinas held that both subjective intention and objective consequence are necessary in making a moral judgment. In one of Thomas's examples, while out hunting it is better to kill your father believing he is a stag, than to kill a stag believing it is your father.

From the point of view of the moral theology of Thomas Aquinas, we may judge illegal immigrants from Mexico from both a subjective and objective point of view. Objectively, illegal immigrants are breaking U. S. immigration laws, but do these criminals have a subjective intention that outweighs the objective criminal act? Is breaking U. S. immigration laws justified because it is the only way poor Mexicans can feed their families, or do illegal immigrants who come to the U. S. have another choice?

Coming to the U. S. illegally is not the only choice poor Mexicans can make to improve their lives. They could also choose to stay in Mexico and work to make Mexico a better country. In fact, as good Christians it is their moral obligation to do this. It is better to improve Mexico than to be a criminal in the U. S. Illegal immigration may be the easy way out, but it is not the moral way. Christians are supposed to do what is good, even if the good is difficult to do.

Although Christianity encourages acts of charity, we cannot be both charitable and law breakers. We cannot rob Peter to pay Paul. The Archbishop of Mexico City should be encouraged to prevent Mexicans from coming illegally to the U. S. He should encourage Mexicans to work for Christian social change in Mexico instead of criticizing U. S. immigration policies. Unless the Mexican state changes, many Mexican citizens will never be able to have a fulfilled life. Nor can they find fulfillment by breaking U. S. immigration laws. To push the poor from your door to your neighbor's door is not an example of Christian charity.

It remains to be seen what other religious questions will be raised about illegal immigration to the U. S. It seems clear for the moment that as the debate over illegal immigration grows, so, too will the theological and scriptural debate over this issue grow. It may very well be that just as liberal Christianity in the U. S. inspired the civil rights movement of the late 20th century, so, conservative Christianity will inspire the secure border movement of the early 21st century.

Robert Klein Engler lives in Chicago. He is an adjunct professor at Roosevelt University

42 posted on 04/28/2006 11:48:18 AM PDT by LowOiL ("I am neither . I am a Christocrat" -Benjamin Rush)
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To: Lurking Libertarian

John 10:1
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber."


52 posted on 04/28/2006 11:54:56 AM PDT by azhenfud (He who always is looking up seldom finds others' lost change.)
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To: Lurking Libertarian
Leviticus 13:33-34 (NIV): 33 When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. 34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

Important note: The alien remains an alien, does not become a citizen. Second important note: Comparison of 2000 BC to 2000 AD societal and legal issues are not possible since the laws were tailored to fit a middle eastern situation, NOT present day western culture.

64 posted on 04/28/2006 12:07:50 PM PDT by Godzilla (The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control.)
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To: Lurking Libertarian
So if a homeless person sets up tent in your front yard, and tells you he's got squatting rights..I guess you won't have a problem with that? Of course you won't..LOL.

sw

83 posted on 04/28/2006 12:27:47 PM PDT by spectre (Spectre's wife)
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To: Lurking Libertarian
Leviticus 13:33-34 (NIV): 33 When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. 34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

Okay...how about:
Deuteronomy 28:43-44:

43 The stranger that is within thee shall get up above thee very high; and thou shalt come down very low.

44 He shall lend to thee, and thou shalt not lend to him: he shall be the head, and thou shalt be the tail.

LOL!! I love it when libertarians selectively quote Scripture.

120 posted on 04/28/2006 4:30:35 PM PDT by BrerRabbit
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To: Lurking Libertarian
True, but look at numbers and demographics.
We were also commanded to protect against invasion of Israel.
12 million amnested illegals would soon enough become 30+ million thanks to anchor babaies, document fraud, and family reunification.
Take a good look at the pattern of Mexican colonization of our border. It is not immigration but a reconquista.
125 posted on 04/28/2006 6:30:15 PM PDT by rmlew (Sedition and Treason are both crimes, not free speech.)
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To: Lurking Libertarian
Leviticus 13:33-34 (NIV): 33 When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. 34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

Here is quote that takes the opposite stand and promotes use of force to remove people that shouldn't be there:

1. Exodus 23:31 "I will establish your borders from the Red Sea [ Hebrew Yam Suph; that is, Sea of Reeds ] to the Sea of the Philistines, [ That is, the Mediterranean ] and from the desert to the River. [ That is, the Euphrates ] I will hand over to you the people who live in the land and you will drive them out before you.

151 posted on 04/29/2006 9:36:26 AM PDT by Mogollon
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