Posted on 04/27/2006 6:26:15 PM PDT by spanalot
Was General Patton's death the result of a traffic accident or was he the victim of an assassination plot? (By Stalin)
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
As I read it, the Panzers were held in the Pas-De-Calais region because all military logic (as well as a ton of false intelligence fed to the Germans by the Allies) indicated that's where the inital assault SHOULD have been. The Pas-De-Calais is the shortest distance across the Channel, and is also the shortest distance between the Channel Coast and the Ruhr Basin (Germany's industrial heartland).
There is also the added feature of the famous "Transportation Plan" insisted on by Eisenhower prior to the Normandy landings. This was repeated bombing of bridges, rail networks, marshalling yards, etc. that cut Normandy off from northern France. It works in the opposite direction as well: cutting northern France off from Normandy, which fit in very well with German estimations on the location of the Invasion. The Germans could hardly have counter-attacked with much armor had they wanted to, anyway. Normandy was almost completely isolated.
However, German strategy for defense of the French coast was flawed to begin with, with it's heavy dependance on the Atlantic Wall. In the end, the vaunted defenses held up the Allies for about a day at Omaha, a few hours at Utah, and practically not at all everywhere else. The wall was also stuffed to the rafters with non-German troops (the only true German formation was the 352nd infantry at Omaha), the rest being a mixture of Germans, conscripted Poles, Ukranians, and other German allies, and in one peculiar case, two Koreans (origianlly captured by the Soviets at Nomonhon in 1939, pressed into service in the Soviet Army in the dark days of 1941-42, captured by the Germans in Russia and eventually pressed into service in the German Army. True story)).
No exotic dancers needed. I went to UCONN, where they teach you to THINK beofre you put yourself in that kind of position, not Duke, where they teach you to drink and act like a dumbass, apparently. Besides, Mrs. Wombat is plenty enough female for me.
Thank your Dad for a job well-done for me, please!
Before I forget, it was Wermacht SOP (after Anzio) NOT to oppose Allied amphibious landings with massed armor, because that armor was vulnerable to Allied naval gunfire. At Anzio, a German armored regiment sent to counter-attack the tenuous beachhead was nearly wiped out by such gunfire.
Thus, the reluctance to meet the Allies on the beaches of Normandy (or Calais) with massed, armored counter-attacks.
Three german panzr formations were in Normandy, however, and these were primarily wasted by delay: the need to get Hitler's personal permission to move, the confusion caused by the Allied airdrops, overwhelming Allied airpower and finally,the actions of the French Resistance, which prevented much of it from even being entrained and moved to the battlefield.
When the remnants of German armor did belatedly show up, it ran smack into Montgomery. the fighting around Caen was some of the most ferocious of the war, and Monty (by the skin of his teeth, and by virtue of Allied airpower) managed to emerge victorious in that battle of attrition.
And just in case I haven't said it; Thanks for your kind words.
I just finished reading Eisenhower's "Crusade in Europe" (wr.1948), and in it he repeatedly speaks highly of Patton as a close friend and great military leader. His actions concerning Patton always seemed to be because of his broad outlook on future consequences. More than once, he insisted to Marshall on having Patton as a vital portion of his major plans.
Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if he had been allowed to push into Russia ........
"Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if he had been allowed to push into Russia ........"
He would have either have been defeated outright or embroiled in a lengthy war of attrition which could not be won. In either case, he would have left the security of THIS country an open question, never mind the safety and security of Europe.
While battlefield leadership is often a major plus as to who wins and how, it very rarely overcomes overwhelming odds, distances and geography. It does not produce soldiers out of thin air. These were Patton's main obstacles in any invasion of the USSR, and they are often neglected.
What if Patton had lived, period? His notion of sending a rearmed Wehrmacht back into the USSR would have been shelved as fantastical, but as a close advisor to Eisenhower, would Patton have forced a far tougher NATO line against the Soviets?
Like Czechoslovakia not going communist in 1948?
I have been aboard the Belfast, anchored as a museum in the Thames. It's certainly inspiring to think that this ship fought the Scharnhorst, fired on the beaches of Normandy and bombareded the North Koreans. It is a beautiful ship and a monument to her builders.
Did you ever google your handle? You seem to have vast experience in quite a few things - but none of it includes being a historian.
You are very outspoken and very wrong on a wide variety of subjects.
Patton did a remarkable job in turning around our effort in Africa, he shined in Sicily and his brilliance in Europe can not be denied. The allies were caught with their pants down at the Bulge, except for PAtton whose routing of the
Germans and his race to Bastogne is one of the all time greats.
And Patton knew the UNEQUALED genocide committed by the Russians prior to the WWII and he anticipated that the Russians would spread this terror post WWWII.
And we did have two A Bombs and we could have crushed the Russians WHO RELIED ON US FOR BATTLEFIELD SUPPLIES.
Keep trying.
Google my handle? Whatever for? I'm only known as Wombat101 here on FreeRepublic.
The fact that you have done so, apparently,is interesting on so many levels. To begin with, I have bothered you to such an extent that you feel you must investigate me. I find that pathetic, but understandable, since you probably feel so inadequate and this is some measure of power for the powerless. Then again, it's part and parcel of the propagandist's trade that when he cannot win with truth and facts, he must find a way to discreit his opponent. The very tactics your hated Nazis and KGB would have used. You must be soooo proud.
On the other hand, your feeble attempts to investigate me border on the creepy. Keep it up and I'll be forced to call the authorities on you (and remember, I'm the System's Programmer here; I can do a whole lot better than a Google Search). Unless the KGB somehow manages to get their hands on you again, of course.
In the meantime, this argument is over.
And you are STILL WRONG.
"On the other hand, your feeble attempts to investigate me border on the creepy."
Don't flatter yourself.
Your posts betray none of the qualifications of which you brag, "sailor".
And your right - anyone who thinks the General who anticipated the Battle of the Bulge was just a media invention is incapable of discussion.
Don't expect Wombat101 to lose his convenient amnesia re: the US advantage of having the A bomb. We had two in inventory and they would have made short order of the Soviets if they resisted our demand to release 50,000 allied POWs (as well as eastern Europe).
Of course you conviently forget that there are only 200 or so WWII MIAs that can be tracked to the former Soviet Union.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0915765837/002-2201135-2333667?n=283155
Youre in the wrong place to make light of forgotten POW's
You're talking to the wrong guy when you use sources that include people who make a living exploiting the families of MIAs.
Here are the facts that you keep denying:
"Additionally, the World War II Working Group continues to spearhead U.S. accounting efforts in Central Europe, where it maintains around 293 active cases of missing American servicemen in a number of nations. Two sites within the region are believed to contain the remains of missing American service members, and these have been identified for recovery operations. Two additional sites also are being evaluated for future recovery attempts. Field and analytical work in Hungary have provided valuable information on the circumstances of loss surrounding a dozen incidents encompassing over 20 unaccounted-for U.S. airmen. Additionally, JCSD research has directly accessed numerous foreign archives (Russia, Hungary, Romania, Croatia, Poland, and the Czech Republic), which has provided specific information on U.S. loss cases validated by site visits and interviews with witnesses. JCSD investigators have initiated important cooperative relations with governmental and other professional research entities in Hungary, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Slovenia, Croatia, and Romania in an effort to advance inquiries in those nations."
http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/sovietunion/worldwar_working.htm
The book that you quote is wrong and is written by guys who relied on "expert testimony" from people who have made a living scamming the families of our unaccounted for heros by claiming to have information for a price. They do not correctly paint the story of what happened to our men. Read the quote again - 293 active cases. That's for all of Eastern Europe.
That you are so willing to believe a trash novel that paints every American president from Harry Truman to our current president as part of the big conspiracy to keep our missing heros from being found is DISGUSTING.
You also dishoner the men and women, civilian service and active duty military, who travel around the globe to account for our missing. It wasn't too long ago that we lost 9 of these people in a tragic helicopter crash. But you would call these very people part of this non-existant conspiracy to cover up a non-existant plan to write off missing Americans.
SHAME ON YOU.
"Through its investigative efforts, the World War II Working Group has confirmed that there were about 28,000 American Prisoners of War held by the Germans and their allies in camps on the Eastern Front. These prisoners came under Soviet control in the war’s final days, when the Red Army liberated the camps and occupied this territory. U.S. records show that about 25,000 of these POWs returned directly across the lines to U.S. military control. More than 2,800 others were returned to U.S. military control through the Soviet Black Sea port of Odessa (now Ukraine)."
More facts that contradict your "sources". I trust you can add? Add up the numbers and then make your ridiculous claims.
I never said that anticipating the Bulge was a media hype job. I've only complemented him on it 17 times in this thread. Perhaps if you opened your eyes and started comphrehending what you read (you can read, right?), you would have seen it. I've pointed to it as one of Patton's highlights.
And I personally don't care what you believe, you're still a mental midget and probably an escapee from the local funny farm.
Oh, and by the way:
YOU'RE STILL WRONG!!!!
Fascinating!
Patton was the most feared general in WWII - by the nazis and soviets - and now by Wombat and Romanov.
I am sorry to have reminded the world of Patton's plans to do the right thing after WWII, as I can see you took offense to his attempt to stop russia's recipe for genocide.
Pathetic.
You spin me round like a record round round like a record baby. Spinalot. Twisting peoples words and lying is second hand to you.
When did the KGB interrogate you in the US? Which GULag was your parents in?
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