Posted on 04/27/2006 6:26:15 PM PDT by spanalot
Was General Patton's death the result of a traffic accident or was he the victim of an assassination plot? (By Stalin)
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
Well put. I'd also add that this:
"It is a common thing in the former Soviet Union amongst the older generation to claim that while they exhibited all the patriotic fervor and love of Stalin that was required during the "Great Patriotic War", they really didn't mean it, and only NOW whent he Soviet State has been dismembered, can they finally come out and say so. "
is very true and very similiar to all of the Germans who lived during Hitler's time and claim they a.) "didn't support him, and b.) "had no idea that they were killing Jews, and c.) "were just following orders."
RE #258: CLASSIC!!!!
paTTon: o s***!
*paTTon has left the game.*
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Funny
Fascinating picture - is this after Patton's death as he casts no shadow like the other boots do.
So what do you loyal american vets think about the theory that Patton was killed by the Russians?
What do you think of his idea to attack Russia to short cirquit the inevitable - the Cold War and Korean War and Viet Nam War and War on Terror.
You seem like a fairly smart fellow.
How do you deny the very significant presence of Mother Goose Marxism in the Middle East in the 50's when the area was being modernized politically. It seems to me that when a culture passes from tribal identifications to global ones, having the University of Moscow indoctrinate the impressionable on the evils of the west can really screw up our week - like the week of 9-11-01.
You can choose to stick your head in the sand, but the effect that the Russians had during the Cold War in the Middle East, running around and bashing the "Imperialist Colonial" west was very significant.
And if these tendencies of Islam are innate and as old as the hills, why have they lived fairly peacably for the past 500 years - coexisting with diverse cultures and religions.
You are really quite wrong on this one - the culture that brought us algebra is not the west bashing one we have today and it has nothing to do with religion - and everything to do with the Kremlin "Anti Imperialist/Colonialist" propaganda.
Like I said, if you scratch the Ukrainian Basher, you usually find leftist propaganda worthy of the LA Times.
Did you write the LA Times article that accused Bandera of being a Nazi?
And I see you now choose Demjanjiuk - isnt he the Uke that was set up by a phoney ID card forged by the KGB - wasn't he found not guilty by the Israel Supreme Court?
The "Germany insurgency" is an urban myth.
You speculate (falsely) that Patton would have executed a Ukrainian Freedom Fighter who spent most of the war in a Nazi Concetration camp (where his brothers died).
But what do you think of what Patton had to say of the Russians?
Little did Patton know that the Kremlin and its agents would go on to kill 50 million.
"So what do you loyal american vets think about the theory that Patton was killed by the Russians? "
Who knows, but it would be SOVIETS - by the way, a UKRAINIAN ran the wet works for the KGB.
"What do you think of his idea to attack Russia to short cirquit the inevitable - the Cold War and Korean War and Viet Nam War and War on Terror.
Revisionist history and once again you do a disservice to an AMERICAN hero - Patton didn't say RUSSIA, he said SOVIET UNION. To him YOU ALL (Russian and Ukrainians) were FILTHY COMMUNISTS (Something I believe you remain to this day comrade).
Don't dare try to paint Patton with your "Ukrainian nationalist" brush.
"Little did Patton know that the Kremlin and its agents would go on to kill 50 million."
You have absolutely zero qualms about disparaging American heros. Why don't you and your KUN brothers go back to Lvov and leave real Americans along Comrade Spanalot
"You speculate (falsely) that Patton would have executed a Ukrainian Freedom Fighter who spent most of the war in a Nazi Concetration camp (where his brothers died)."
First, quick question - how can I "speculate falsely"? They didn't teach you proper English at the KGB school in Kiev - you should ask your handlers to send you to another course.
Second - Patton would gladly have executed a person (Stepan Bandera) who oversaw and ran an operation in Lvov that was responsible for the deaths of thousands of Jews and Poles. Patton recognized that some Nazis also ended up in the concentration camps - after they outlived their usefulness to the Germans - especially if they were "sub-human Slavs" (Nazis' words, not mine).
How are those KUN meetings going traitor?
"Like I said, if you scratch the Ukrainian Basher, you usually find leftist propaganda worthy of the LA Times.
Did you write the LA Times article that accused Bandera of being a Nazi?
And I see you now choose Demjanjiuk - isnt he the Uke that was set up by a phoney ID card forged by the KGB - wasn't he found not guilty by the Israel Supreme Court"
OMG!! You really and truly are a holocaust denier. Absolutely amazing.
And thanks for the laughable letter in defense of the Nazi dupe Bandera. Gee, what an unimpeachable source - his grandson.
What's next spannie? Are you going to trot out the Rosenbergs' son and let him tell us how his parents were innocent of spying for the Soviets?
You communists never change. What's worse is the vile nationalist-communists like you and your Lvov brothers from KUN
Here is what Jewish people who suffered at the hands of Bandera and his ilk say about him (Are you going to call these survivors of the Bandera-genocide Soviet tools as well):
"Roman Shukeyavitch is also memorialized. He was the deputy commander of the SS Division Nightingale. And then there's Stephan Bandera. To Ukrainians, Bandera is the father of the modern state. Peace Street in Lvov has been renamed Bandera Street. He's considered a great patriot, even though the Jews remember him as the leader of a notorious army of murderers."
"Now when someone puts up as his hero someone who we consider a murderer," Rabbi Bleich comments, "and you respect them even though you understand you are not respecting him because he is a murderer, whatever, that does send shivers down - - you know, down your spine."
"The western Ukraine is fertile ground for hatred," charges Safer. "Independence only underlined its backwardness; uneducated peasants, deeply superstitious, in possession of this bizarre anomaly; nuclear weapons capable of mass destruction thousands of miles away, the Soviet legacy. Western Ukraine also has a long dark history of blaming its poverty, its troubles, on others."
The fact that you continue to defend a man who helped the NAZIS calls into serious question your loyalty to America. Many of us on here had familiy members who paid the ultimate sacrifice to defeat the very people Bandera assisted - the Nazis.
But let's use your logic - Erich Honeker, the Communist thug who ran East Germany with an iron fist ALSO was arrested by the Nazis and sat in a concentration camp. In your book he'd be a "victim" too. Disgusting.
Once again from the US Dept. of Justice's Nazi hunter:
"Hitler’s subsequent invasion of the USSR in June 1941 was aided in no small measure by fascist Ukrainian paramilitaries, such as the nationalist anti-Russian Ukrainian separatist organization - the Melnyk Faction; and the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) with its paramilitary force, the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (under the command of Stepan Bandera - of whom, more, later), which had, for instance, assisted the Germans in their takeover of Kovel, in northwestern Ukraine."
And from a prominent Jewish (British now) historian:
"Historian Reuben Ainsztein has chronicled the widespread and voluntary help given by the Ukrainian Nationalists to the Nazi exterminations in Western Ukraine. In his classic Jewish Resistance in Nazi-Occupied Eastern Europe, he states that at the beginning of the Nazi occupation, the OUN leaders:
"Stetsko and Bandera proclaimed the creation of a "free Ukraine" and organized a 31,000 strong militia . . . The militia played a most important part in making it possible for the Einsatzkommando to carry out their task of genocide and terror until the middle of August [1941] . . . The militia was then disbanded and 3,000 cut-throats were allowed to enroll in the Ukrainian auxiliary police which was to play such an abominable role in the annihilation of the Jews in Eastern Europe."
In the first eight months of Nazi occupation of Western Ukraine, 15 per cent of Galician Jews - 100,000 people - were slaughtered by the joint actions of the Germans and Ukrainian Nationalists. Jewish-Canadian survivor and decorated anti-Nazi partisan Nahum Kohn describes the Ukrainian fascist role in the holocaust in Ukraine's Volyn region: ". . . whenever Jews were slaughtered, four or five Germans would participate, 'helped' by 100 or 200 Ukrainian Nationalists. When the Ukraine was virtually Judenfrei ('cleansed of Jews'), the Banderovtsy (OUN-Bandera) turned on their Polish neighbors."8 In his autobiography, Kohn describes how his partisans came to the rescue of the Polish inhabitants of Pshebrazhe, ravished by Banderite fascists who had slaughtered 40 per cent of the villagers."
Another Jewish historian comments on Bandera and his people:
"In July 1941 in Lviv, the OUN Nationalists declared a "Day in Honor of the Memory of Petliura" and turned the streets red with the blood of Jewish victims. As holocaust historian Lucy Dawidowicz states:
"In Lwow the Germans and Ukrainian [Nationalists], in house-to-house hunts for Jews, shot them randomly on the spot. Belatedly avenging the assassination . . . of Petliura, notorious anti-Semite . . . the Ukrainians staged mammoth pogroms, slaughtering thousands and carrying off other thousands of Jews to Einsatzgruppen headquarters. Within hours or days, those Jews who had been taken away were machine-gunned en masse at some remote desolate area. The disaster was epic . . ."15
Another full-page Black Deeds tribute honors the Nazi "Major" and murderer Roman Shukhevych, commander of the bloody Nachtigall Battalion. 16 Following the reorganization of his troops into Nazi Schutzmannschaft battalions in the summer of 1941, Shukhevych, under Nazi direction, led his men into Byelorussia to slaughter partisans, Jews, and peasants. Later in the war, this recipient of the Nazi Iron Cross commanded the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), which Ainsztein describes as "the most dangerous and cruel enemies of surviving Jews, Polish peasants and settlers, and all anti-German partisans."
"Although the Melnyk and Bandera tendencies of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists were at odds with each other and even fought each other, we can see here how they collaborated against the Communists under the leadership of the German Nazis.
The Nazi officer Scholtze revealed in front of the Nuremberg tribunal that Kanaris, the head of German intelligence, had `personally instructed the Abwehr to set up an underground network to continue the struggle against Soviet power in the Ukraine. Competent agents were left behind specially to direct the Nationalist movement'"
I'll be waiting to see how you try to disparage the men quoted in these articles who fought in the anti-Nazi resistance (Polish freedom fighters), did NOT help the communists, and now reside in Britain, Canada, and the US. These are men who saw what your hero Bandera did first hand.
"Patton didn't say RUSSIA,"
Yes he did and then many times after that.
Post 252 is a direct quote from Patton.
Puhleeze, that still doesn't mean Patton would defend a man who murdered Jews in Ukraine. And to try to infer Patton would support Bandera is disgusting.
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