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To: Czar
These photos, and the accompanying captions, are deeply depressing. But thanks so much for sharing them, wardaddy. Just as we need to periodically take another look at the specter of innocent Americans leaping from the fiery inferno that was the Twin Towers, so, too, we need to witness the arrogance and wickedness of these invaders – and, more importantly, we need to contemplate what continued mass ignorance of their agenda will mean to us all.

Czar, thanks for the ping. I know that you and I are in complete agreement on the implications of the illegal immigration crisis. I had also assumed agreement among others whom I know, but received a rude awakening a few weeks ago.

I teach the adult Sunday school class at our church on a rotating basis. In each lesson I always attempt to use scripture to provide immutable guidance for formulating a well-founded, Christ-centered opinion on political/social issues.

Several weeks ago I focused on what scriptural basis we must use in order to confront the illegal immigration crisis and I was astounded to discover that, at the beginning of the class, close to half of the members (which numbered just under fifty people) believed that the need to preserve the ‘human dignity’ of the illegals far outweighs the fact that they have broken the law.

The words hope, joy, charity, morality and brotherly love were bandied about, in an effort to prove that Christ would have overlooked law-breaking in deference to showing love and forgiveness to our fellow man … and the fact that there is a higher law than man’s laws that deal with immigration.

We eventually discussed many reasons why such piously nebulous arguments don’t mesh with Old Testament doctrine or the New Testament teachings of Christ – the most obvious of examples (but only two of countless) of which are:

(1) the eighth and tenth Commandments (you shall not steal … and you shall not covet your neighbor's house, your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor), the breaking of both of which have become a way of life for the majority of the eleven million Mexican criminals who have crossed our southern border and are parasitically living off the American taxpayer, demanding rights without responsibilities, and staking out illegitimate claims to our homeland … and

(2) Christ’s admonition in the Sermon on the Mount in which he commands, ’Depart from me, you lawbreakers!’

St. Augustine's (the fifth-century writer who greatly influenced the roots of western Christianity) ‘City of God’ (the ‘War and Peace’ of Christendom, as far as length and depth are concerned) actually proves extraordinarily prophetic, in that he makes a case against globalization and unfettered immigration.

He writes candidly of the advantages and disadvantages which often indiscriminately accrue to good and wicked men, and of the order which must be given a people and a republic.

‘City of God’ is a prophetic fifth-century warning on the necessity of maintaining national borders and sovereignty, and preserving the unique identity of a civilization. Augustine also warns that social chaos, rather than natural catastrophe, or major cataclysm, may herald the end of a civilization. Had he lived today, he most assuredly would have been a vocal anti-globalist and anti-illegal-immigration activist. And yet all too many of those who profess to follow his early Christian teachings have fallen prey to the New Age peace/love/brotherhood-at-all-costs mantra.

Many evangelical Christian denominations and organizations have voiced approval of an immigration bill that would include an amnesty provision. A few are even in favor of some form of open borders. And the virtual silence from much of the remainder of evangelical churches is deafening. Traditional evangelical respect for law and order appears to be giving way to a toxic, feel-good, unscriptural call for tolerance and forgiveness (of even those who, once forgiven, continue to break the law).

Going to church every Sunday, singing in the choir, or piously placing one's tithe in the collection plate does not a Christian make. The first and final aim of those who call themselves Christians is to live as Christ-like a life as possible. Jesus Christ would not have hidden himself away from the evil that surrounds us, anesthetizing himself from its pervasiveness by submerging himself in all manner of worldly pursuits, glibly offering superficial, feel-good platitudes, and convincing himself that all is well. He would have been speaking out to all who were willing to listen. He would have been placing himself between the evil-doers and their intended victims. Passivity, or tolerance of wickedness, would not have been an option.

One of the primary reasons our republic sits on this terrifying abyss is that those in decision-making positions in government and church no longer remain true to the foundations of those institutions whose purity and integrity they are charged to defend.

The dismantling of the Constitution, and the ignoring or interpretational editing of scriptural doctrine, amount to the corruption of words whose sources are pure and well-conceived, in order to justify self-absorbed, agenda-driven, or irresponsible human behavior. And if we continue to allow government and church leadership to chip away at those timeless (and, in the case of scripture, divinely-inspired) documents and doctrines, we will find ourselves sailing in dark waters … without anchor or compass. And then we had better hope (having forfeited our right to pray) for a storm-free future.

Earlier thoughts on the looming destruction of our sovereignty and the deliberate impotence of our leadership

~ joanie ....

216 posted on 04/23/2006 9:35:00 PM PDT by joanie-f (If you believe God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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To: wardaddy

Apologies. Meant to post #216 to you as well.


217 posted on 04/23/2006 9:36:44 PM PDT by joanie-f (If you believe God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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To: joanie-f
Many Protestant and Catholic churches are more about being nice....ripe for liberal exploitation.

The Southern Baptist Convention has expressed alarm at amnesty.

The SBC is dependable...as is the Texas based Church of Christ and most Charismatics.

I do not know one GOPer in my social circles or family that supports Bush or the Senate RINOs on this ...including several contractors.
221 posted on 04/23/2006 9:44:42 PM PDT by wardaddy ("I believe it is peace for our time... go home and get a nice quiet sleep")
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To: joanie-f

Do you know which evangelical groups have taken a stance either way?


235 posted on 04/23/2006 10:54:24 PM PDT by SiliconValleyGuy
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To: joanie-f

Joanie your posts are a wonder to behold!


236 posted on 04/23/2006 10:56:14 PM PDT by TAdams8591 (Get the US out of the UN and the UN out of the US!)
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To: joanie-f
What is a Christians duty?

Mic 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what [is] good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

But what was Jesus' mission?

Jhn 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Luk 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.


There is SOOO much that you post and that is on your profile page that I whole heartedly agree with! I hesitate to even put this up, but I think it is an important distinction.

You posted..."He (Jesus) would have been speaking out to all who were willing to listen. He would have been placing himself between the evil-doers and their intended victims."

That implies to me that Jesus would be speaking out against illegal immigration. I would disagree. Jesus is concerned about something MUCH larger...your soul. Rome and Israel were filled with all kinds of legal problems, but Jesus spoke about our relationship with Him.

I am NOT saying that we as Christians shouldn't speak and work for legal immigration. The first verse I posted talks about "doing justice." That would involve being active to preserve and protect the best form of Justice we have...the constitution.

I hope my disagreement with you isn't too nuanced, because I too believe that many people are sleeping while America is being slowly invaded.

Sincerely
281 posted on 04/24/2006 10:52:33 AM PDT by ScubieNuc
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To: joanie-f; wardaddy
"...I was astounded to discover that, at the beginning of the class, close to half of the members (which numbered just under fifty people) believed that the need to preserve the ‘human dignity’ of the illegals far outweighs the fact that they have broken the law."

Those members--sincere, well intentioned, and completely wrong. Your (1) and (2) responses constitute the perfect refutation for such well meaning speciousness.

"Traditional evangelical respect for law and order appears to be giving way to a toxic, feel-good, unscriptural call for tolerance and forgiveness (of even those who, once forgiven, continue to break the law)."

And so we come to the crux of the religious "problem" as it relates to the lawbreakers from Mexico and elsewhere. To illustrate the point, I can think of no better example than the well publicized position of the Catholic church, at least as enunciated by Cardinal Mahony (Los Angeles). Even here, of course, one cannot entirely discount other, less altrusistic, motives ( fill in ).

"The dismantling of the Constitution, and the ignoring or interpretational editing of scriptural doctrine, amount to the corruption of words whose sources are pure and well-conceived, in order to justify self-absorbed, agenda-driven, or irresponsible human behavior."

Here we have, in one succinct sentence, the perfect statement of cause underpinning the reprehensible behavior of our Washington elites who have never found a principle they weren't able to rise above.

Your words, as always, bring clarity and focus to the illegal alien issue, and are right on target.

289 posted on 04/24/2006 3:32:04 PM PDT by Czar (StillFedUptotheTeeth@Washington)
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To: joanie-f

joanie-f....thank you. Thank you very much...


333 posted on 04/27/2006 6:17:24 PM PDT by Brad’s Gramma (csbtadcbprigwenyucknyuck)
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To: joanie-f
Many evangelical Christian denominations and organizations have voiced approval of an immigration bill that would include an amnesty provision.

THIS evangelical does NOT agree with that...

335 posted on 04/27/2006 6:36:05 PM PDT by Brad’s Gramma (csbtadcbprigwenyucknyuck)
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