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Interesting.

Immigration is not the pox neo-Know Nothings make it out to be

By Tony Snow

Sorry Tony, this is one instance where you should have kept your trap shut and let people wonder if you were an idiot on this subject, rather than open it and remove any doubt.

http://www.JewishWorldReview.com | Illegal immigration seems to have spawned a dreary debate about the merits of Mexicans, when it should be drawing attention instead to a very different matter: how to build on the luster and wonder of the American dream.

"Memo to Tony: " Just so you'll know Tony, this debate is not about the merits of Mexicans. It's about the merits of United States Citizens, about our culture and our right to have one. I haven't got one bad word to say about Mexican citizens in their own nation. I respect their rights. I respect their culture. I respect them having to put up with a government that is sadly lacking. I am sorry their opportunities down there aren't up to par. And that's where it ends Tony. I do not have to surrender my nation on the alter of fixing Mexicos problems. What's more, I'm sorry you didn't have a clue that this was true.

Immigration is not the pox neo-Know Nothings make it out to be. Begin with the astounding influx of illegal immigrants, the vast majority of whom hail from Mexico.

Where to begin responding with this third grader's view of the world... Yes Tony, it is a pox on our nation. We have somewhere between fifteen and thirty million illegal immigrants in our nation. Recent accounts state that upwards of 12% of our workforce is made up of illegal immigrants. Anotherwords, for those having a hard time coming up to speed on this topic, 12% of our workforce is working in the United States in violation of U.S. federal laws. 12% of our nation's employment positions have been filled by businesses in violation of federal law. This is no small matter. It is devistating on a number of levels.

First, this situation is fraught with corruption. Employess are corrupt. Employers are corrupt. The government has been corrupted by allowing it to take place. While businesses pay sub-par wages, depressing the employment pools value, these corrupt employees pop out children at an excelerated rate to use as ankor children, and all of them use our healthcare industry as their own piggy bank. Employers don't have to contribute to insurance coverage. Employees don't have to pay for insurance. Who takes it in the shorts for this Tony?

The LAUSD has the second largest construction project in the United States at this time Tony. It's second only to Boston's "Big Dig". You see Tony, we can't build classrooms fast enough to house all the children of illegal immigrants. About 45 schools will go online this year Tony. That's not enough new classrooms. Even those won't be enought. Do you begin to get the picture Tony? No! Of course not!

This barely scratches the surface bud.

While the population includes an eye-popping number of crooks, drug-dealers and would-be welfare sponges, it also provides a helpful prop for sustaining American economic growth and cultural dynamism.

My goodness how easily you reduce the problems of illegal immigration to one sentence, then excuse away those problems with gobble-de-gook.

And eye-popping number of crooks? Drug-dealers? Would-be welfar sponges? No problem for you Tony. After all, it also provides a helpful prop for sustaining Amercian economic growth and above everything else, "Cultural Dynamism".

Tony, put down the crack pipe and listen up.

I don't have a problem with exposure to different cultures. Do you hear me? In my area there are Armenians, Koreans, Mexicans, Russians... look fella, don't preach to me about "Cultural Dynamism". I'm about "Cultural Dynamismed" to death. I, not you ,have to traverse through regions of my community were signeage has been changed to foreign languages. I cannot go into businesses that I used to frequent because it's actually dangerous for me to do so. If I want to risk my life, I only need to enter a store in my own nation, not all that far from my home. You have some nerve talking to me about "Cultural Dynamism" you son of a bitch.

I've got news for you Tony, the United States has had a thriving economy for two hundred and thirty-five years. During those two-hundred and thirty-five years, we allowing immigration in reasoned numbers, never enough to swamp our nation, always enough to do things right. Anotherwords, your economic comments are bull-shit. Whole regions of our nation didn't have to approach the Quebec/Canadian model to sustain economic growth. And today Tony, it still doesn't, even though we are balkanizing it to an alarming degree.

Princeton University sociologist Douglas S. Massey reports that 62 percent of illegal immigrants pay income taxes (via withholding) and 66 percent contribute to Social Security. Forbes magazine notes that Mexican illegals aren't clogging up the social-services system: only 5 percent receive food stamps or unemployment assistance; 10 percent send kids to public schools.

Tony, are you really so far out of touch on this subject that you'd accept a university sociologist and a business oriented magazine's assurances on this topic? Let me guess, you'd accept Jimmy Carter's assurances on North Korean nuclear ambitions as well. And hey, Dan Rather would be a great person to ask about Fidel Castro. Go for it Tony. While you're at it, ask Harry Reid about Bush's actions in Iraq, and Cynthia McKenny's views on respect for police officers.

On the work front, Hispanic unemployment has tumbled to 5.5 percent, only slightly above the national average of 4.7 percent and considerably lower than the black unemployment rate of 9.3 percent.

Ah, Tony... Tony... wake up Tony... oh sorry there, I think you were dozing off. Do we have unemployment in this nation? Do we have people on welfare in this nation? Do we have people taking courses in this nation with funding from the government, still considered to be employed? Do we have people on work-fair? Anotherwords Tony, you can tout a lot of numbers these days that aren't worth the paper they're printed on. We have many people out of work in this nation. You're simply dilusional if you think you'll make some points with me by quoting some of the things you do here.

Economist Larry Kudlow praises Hispanic entrepreneurship: "According to 2002 Census Bureau data, Hispanics are opening businesses at a rate three times faster than the national average. In addition, there were almost 1.6 million Hispanic-owned businesses generating $222 billion in revenue in 2002."

Nobody here is damning Hispanics as it applies to entrepreneurship. I note that Larry and you did not distinguish between Hispanices here legally or illegaly. Why is that Tony? Tony, how many businesses were owned by citizens of northern european ancestry in 2002? Care to tell us how much revenue they generated?

Skeptics counter that immigrants have clogged our hospitals, which is true — but primarily in places that offer lavish benefits to illegal immigrants.

Once again, your article touches on a subject that reveals you know nothing about what you are addressing. Every hospital in the United States is required to treat anyone that presents themselves to their emergency room. They must take this person in, do a full assessment, provide emergency treatment if required, and if that patient requires it, the hospital must take all means possible to stabalize the patient. If that patient has had a heart attack, the hospital has to treat the patient.

Please Tony, what choice do the hospitals have over lavish vs no-so-lavish benefits? Let me expose you to some "Cultural Dynamism" bud, "NADA!"

As for crime, the picture doesn't quite conform to conventional wisdom. Heather McDonald discovered that illegal immigrants in 2004 accounted for 95 percent of all outstanding homicide warrants in Los Angeles and two-thirds of unserved felony warrants. (Gangs, aided and abetted by laws that prevent local officials from handing illegal-immigrant criminals over to federal authorities, account for much of the mayhem.)

Oh I'd say this conforms quite nicely. You just don't like it.

On the other hand, the most comprehensive survey to date of national crime data concludes, "In the small number of studies providing empirical evidence, immigrants are generally less involved in crime than similarly situated groups, despite the wealth of prominent criminological theories that provide good reasons why this should not be the case."

There is no other hand. The facts speak for themselves. In Californa it is accepted that there is less than 10% of the states populace that illegal immigrants. Most would state it's probably something around five percent. None the less, around 20 to 25% of California's state prison population are illegal immigrants. And by the way Tony, you do realize what types of crimes it would have to be to put these peope in the state pen, rather than deport don't you?

Authors Ramiro Martinez Jr. and Matthew T. Lee note, for instance, that the Latino homicide rate in Miami is three times that of El Paso, Texas, which has one of the nation's largest immigrant populations. That's not just an anomaly. Another major study, "U.S. Impacts of Mexican Immigration," by professors Michael J. Greenwood and Marta Tienda reports that "crime rates along the border are lower than those of comparable non-border cities."

If this is true, and I don't belive it for a moment, why is it that when border regulations were enforced more rigidly nearby a large U.S. city, auto thefts fell by 50%? Tony, if you'd give me enough time I could produce studies that would prove without a shadow of a doubt that smoking cirgarettes prolonged the life of smokers. Studies can be found to prove just about anything. You didn't know that?

This doesn't mean immigrants from Mexico are saints — it just means that they may not be the marauding horde some make them out to be. As it turns out, crime rates in the highest immigration states have been trending significantly downward.

Well there's all the proof I needed. Tony, who worked this up for you? Crime rates have been trending down in most if not all states. I can't believe that you would make a statement like that. It's is beneath you.

Total crime and property crime in California are half what they were in 1980; violent crime has fallen more than a third. The state's Hispanic population during that time has increased 120 percent.

Tony, lets cut to the chase. Please tell us why California's prisons have such a disproportionate representation of illegal aliens.

Similar trends apply in other high-traffic states, with the exception of Colorado. While Arizona's population grew 41.8 percent between 1993 and 2003, for instance, the rates for every major category of crime fell.

As I said before Tony, crime stats are down across the board. Perhaps you should look at vehicular manslaughters involving illegal immigrants. Perhaps you should look at rapes, child molestations, homicides and killings of police officers. Let us know what you find. I am constantly reading about these types of crimes commited by illegal immigrants. I am also constantly having to investigate other crimes where the nationality is not given, but it turns out in many cases to be an illegal immigrant that has perpetrated the crime.

Every crime committed in the United States by an illegal immigrant, has a victim that was sold out by business and our federal government. There should not be one death, one rape, one child molestation, one car theft, one robbery, one assault, one gang member, one gang ititiation involving more serious crimes or any other despicable thing take place on U.S. soil, at the hands of a person who should not be here.

Government officials, business employers, renters, local police who look the other way and the appologists for the illegal immigrant are bare a share of the guilt for every crime committed by an illegal immigrant on U.S. soil.

If a woman is raped, these folks bear blame. If a husband with a wife and three kids is killed, the above people bear blame. The list of crimes is lengthy. Every single one that is committed, the above people enabled.

Why, then, the fuss?

What a pitty it is, that you do not know.

In America today, unemployment remains low, employment is booming, wages have begun to grow in tandem with the economy, tax receipts are exploding at the federal and state levels, and the United States continues to run laps around its European and Asian economic rivals.

You said this before Tony. It's no more valid now that it was above.

The United States somehow has managed to absorb 10 million to 20 million illegal immigrants not only without turning into Animal Farm, but while cranking up the most impressive economic recovery in two decades and the most prolonged period of declining crime in a century — all in the teeth of the post-9/11 recession, wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the double-whammy hurricane season of 2005.

So what you're saying is that the United States can no longer survive with the labor of U.S. Citizens. In your mind U.S. Citizens are so inferior that without the help of people with fourth to eighth grade education, the Unites States would no longer experience impressive economic recoveries or declining crime. We would never have recovered from 09/11 and couldn't have conducted the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and could not have survived the double-whammy hurricane season of 2005.

Is that about it? Just damn...

Rather than panicking, the political class might want to take a deep breath and attempt a little common sense.

Take a look at Quebec Canada. Take a deep breath Tony and attempt to think "French" vs "Spanish". Try to think separatism and the future of our nation. Try anyway Tony...

Virtually everyone agrees that we need to secure our borders, deport lawbreakers and slackers among the illegal-immigrant population, and revitalize the notion of citizenship by insisting that prospective citizens master the English language and the fundaments of American history and culture.

After the diatribe to this point, you want us to believe that you actually believe this? No you don't. You have just excused away the need to secure our borders. After all there's no down side. Why would we deport lawbreakers? There's no more of them in the illegal immigrant population than there is in the citizenry. You've just attempted to prove that. What do you mean slackers? You just said that they were all working hard and the best entreprenuers in the nation. Tony, did you by any chance read your article? You're contradicting everything you've said to this point, in this one lengthy sentence. You stated that we needed "Cultural Dynamism". Dang me for saying so, but that's esposure to people who don't use our language, don't give a damn about our nation's history, and for damn certain don't want any part of our culture. Well, you've got that "Cultural Dynamism" you praised. These people carry Mexican flags, hate the U.S., say that U.S. Citizens need to take the next boat to Europe and hope to set up a new nation here called Aztlan?

Have you turned on your television set in the last fifteen years?

The Statue of Liberty symbolizes America's affection for the world's tired and poor, the "huddled masses yearning to breathe free." Before someone razes Lady Liberty and decides to erect a wall to "protect" America from the world, shouldn't we at least spend a little time trying to get our facts straight?

Oh F--K you! AS IF, I needed you to tell me what the Statue of Liberty stands for. Let me tell you what it doesn't stand for, since you haven't a clue. It for damned certain doesn't stand for crime, surrender, the replacement of our culture with that of another people. It doesn't not stand for separatism be it white, black or brown. It doesn't stand for my family and I having to purchase a one-way ticket to Europe.

And you want to lecture us about getting our facts straight?

I have always liked you Tony. This is one of the most despicable pieces of trash I have ever read.

Snow is wet RINO on immigration. According to Snow anyone who wants to enforce the immigration law is a "KNOW-NOTHING". Way to pull the Republicans together, Tony! The problem with Snow's pro-illegal immigration propaganda is based on a statement by Princeton University sociologist Douglas S. Massey.

There is every reason to believe that the obscure Mr. Massey is your typical left-wing professor trying to justify illegal immigration.

For example, How does the Professor know that 60% of all illegal immigrants pay income tax? Where is that coming from?

10 percent send kids to public schools.

A troubling statistical ploy for two reasons. Accuracy in the impacted regions and the misleading nature of the statistic. Following are more relevant facts and statistics.

In California, approximately 40% of the public schools are populated by children with Hispanic surnames. In rural, central California those numbers are near 85%. After March 2003, more than 50% of the newborns in California had Hispanic surnames as opposed to approximately 15% before WWII.

Approximately 85% of California's residents with Hispanics surnames are the result of illegal immigration since WWII. The state's percentage of residents with Hispanic surnames stayed relatively constant (15%) from the turn of the century until the advent of the Bracero Program in the 1960's. The initial inflow of unregulated Mexicans into California that followed the Bracero Program, came not from California's border with Mexico, but from migration through Texas.

62 percent of illegal immigrants pay income taxes (via withholding) and 66 percent contribute to Social Security. Forbes magazine notes that Mexican illegals aren't clogging up the social-services system: only 5 percent receive food stamps or unemployment assistance; 10 percent send kids to public schools.

Ever hear of the book "How to Lie with Statistics?"

The economic arguments for or against illegals are meaningless. The bottom line is that Mexican culture is subverting and eroding institutions and beliefs which have made this country successful, and you can't put a price on that. It is driving us to an ugly war within our own borders unless we capitulate to Mexico's demands. No economic contribution can compensate for that.

Well the illegals have taken over large parts of the country now they are doing the same to FR. If you dare call them on it, you can expect to be attacked in the most foul mouthed matter.

I say let them have at it. They just show what type people they truly are.

"Economist Larry Kudlow praises Hispanic entrepreneurship: "According to 2002 Census Bureau data, Hispanics are opening businesses at a rate three times faster than the national average. In addition, there were almost 1.6 million Hispanic-owned businesses generating $222 billion in revenue in 2002.""

Pure racism. Not all hispanics are illegal immigrants, and not all illegal immigrants are hispanic. I would guess that fewer than 1% of those 1.6 million businesses are owned by illegal immigrants.

"Total crime and property crime in California are half what they were in 1980; violent crime has fallen more than a third. The state's Hispanic population during that time has increased 120 percent."

Using Kalifonia as the model? Nearly 2 million ex-Californians have come to my state in the past 15 years trying to escape that impending shipwreck of that particular bastion of Totalitarian Socialism.

"Immigration is not the pox neo-Know Nothings make it out to be"

Strawman. I haven't seen any of the posters here or opponents of illegal immigration attempting to revive the Know Nothing movement. Strawmen only scare liberals and bird-brained RiNO's... the real 'Know-Nothings'.

Princeton University sociologist Douglas S. Massey reports that 62 percent of illegal immigrants pay income taxes (via withholding) and 66 percent contribute to Social Security. Forbes magazine notes that Mexican illegals aren't clogging up the social-services system: only 5 percent receive food stamps or unemployment assistance; 10 percent send kids to public schools.

The percent of illegals paying income taxes through withholding is unprovable, and this simpleton professor should know that. (There is no box to check on the income tax form to indicate your occupation as "Illegal Alien") Even if we take his numbers as gospel, that means 48% of them are evading taxes. A rate at least 8 times that of "legal" Americans.

Most of these "hard workers" I've come across are claiming 99 exemptions on their W-4 and have ZERO withholding. In addition, many of these undocumented workers are figuring out the dodge used by many documented workers, and working as "Independent Contractors", file no tax returns and pay no taxes at all.

How would Forbes know anything about the load on social services caused by these people? They've never had to wait in an emergency room with all the gunshot wound gang bangers and the sniffeling anchor babies, (while waiting for liposuction), so how would they know what's going on?

My two cents:

Legal immigrants, good (for the most part).

Illegal immigrants, bad (always).

Not very profound I know, but we are a society of laws, not men. To flout the law while two good friends of mine (one from Colombia, the other from Panama) are being put through HELL by ICE is a slap in the face to every American and legal non-citizen.

"10 percent send kids to public schools.

How does this jibe with half LA's school system being half illegals? (Oh, I get it, the kids were born here, so therefore aren't illegal--talk about massaging the data!).

Princeton University sociologist Douglas S. Massey reports that 62 percent of illegal immigrants pay income taxes (via withholding)

And the other 38%?

Excessively sloppy article. Snow constantly confuses his own obtuse anti-anti-immigration projections with the very real and legitimate concern about our borders and our laws having been compromised by the flood of illegals.

The assumptions about "immigrants" and "hispanics" which he seeks to poo-poo are all validated for illegals. They do cause excessive crime, they do clog up the hospitals, they don't pay much withholding(60-some% pay taxes? I'm thrilled.), and they do lowball the wage market. None of this takes into account for the otherwise avoidable social costs of divisiveness and conflict which the illegal problem engenders.

There are enough anti-hispanic people and anti-immigration people to go around, to be sure, but it is an "illegal alien" issue at the base, and should be acknowledged as such. Those who would corrupt the debate by pretending it is primarilly anti-Mexicanism or anti-immigration are liars and frauds, and those who don't know any better, are no better.

I thought you were an ardent anti-communist? I never thought I'd see you allied with Che's disciples.