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Should you be able to take your gun to work?
KVUE-TV (Austin, TX) ^ | 3/28/06 | Vicente Arenas

Posted on 03/29/2006 10:04:37 AM PST by kiriath_jearim

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To: 10mm
I agree with you 100% when the business is privately, rather than publically owned.

That's good enough for me. I share your discomfort with the idea of "corporations" having civil rights like people. For one thing, a "corporation" is immortal...

101 posted on 03/29/2006 11:10:25 AM PST by Shalom Israel (Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem.)
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To: stuartcr
Or on a military base.

Or perhaps the US mint.

102 posted on 03/29/2006 11:11:17 AM PST by Cementjungle
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To: kiriath_jearim
My company added the "no firearms on company property" policy to the annual "ethics" briefing as of October 2005. Fortunately, my "office" is my home. I don't have an office on company property. I did have an office in San Diego in 1999. I also had my firearms in the car for lunchtime trips to the range. It was not forbidden in company policy at that time. Now that the company has adopted a "no firearms on company property" policy, I will not work on company property.
103 posted on 03/29/2006 11:11:46 AM PST by Myrddin
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To: Shalom Israel
The employers property claim ends at my tires. The car is mine. Dictating the contents is trying to establish CONTROL over said car. Something only the actual owner of said car has a Right to be able to do.

No amount of other twisting of the issue can deny that logic.

104 posted on 03/29/2006 11:11:49 AM PST by Dead Corpse (I believe that all government is evil, and that trying to improve it is largely a waste of time.)
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To: Shalom Israel

In the State of Texas I have the right to carry a gun with me and can enter most places with it. I accept the responsibilities to know where it is allowed and where it is not. When my boss says no guns in the workplace I agree and abide. When the same boss tells me what I can leave out in my car there is a problem.

But you are correct. I can work elsewhere.


105 posted on 03/29/2006 11:12:38 AM PST by chesty_puller (USMC 70-73 3MAF VN 70-71)
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To: Dead Corpse

I'm a civilian, I work for a civilian company that does not own the pink slip to my vehicle. I work on a military base. The government doesn't own the pink slip for my vehicle either, but I am restricted, as to what I can have in my vehicle.


106 posted on 03/29/2006 11:13:15 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: kiriath_jearim

Well, you could always go and work for a company with no weapons policy.


107 posted on 03/29/2006 11:13:33 AM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Potowmack
...but the basis behind the rule isn't to discriminate against people who are protected by the ADA, it's meant to increase on-the-job safety as well as productivity.

You're speaking the eulogy for the funeral of property rights. In order for my use of my own private property to be legal, I have to convince somebody else to be satisfied with my reasons. The fact is, it's my property. In order to ban my use of my property, you have to convince (somebody) that it constitutes a violation of someone else's property rights.

Refusing to hire ugly people isn't a violation of property rights, because nobody has a right to a job at my company. It's a privilege I grant, and I'm free to grant it selectively.

I agree, though, that the rules have become somewhat byzantine. My wife represents employers in employment law issues, so I hear some great stories.

I can only imagine. It must be interesting--and frustrating.

108 posted on 03/29/2006 11:13:55 AM PST by Shalom Israel (Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem.)
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To: Cementjungle

Probably so.


109 posted on 03/29/2006 11:14:25 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: Dead Corpse
The employers property claim ends at my tires. The car is mine.

That's true. And your tires aren't allowed to touch his pavement unless the owner gives his permission. So what's your beef?

110 posted on 03/29/2006 11:15:39 AM PST by Shalom Israel (Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem.)
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To: Shalom Israel
So what's your beef?

That the employer, in this argument, is trying to establish a property claim to my car. What do you think we've been talking about?

111 posted on 03/29/2006 11:17:24 AM PST by Dead Corpse (I believe that all government is evil, and that trying to improve it is largely a waste of time.)
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To: chesty_puller
When the same boss tells me what I can leave out in my car there is a problem. But you are correct. I can work elsewhere.

I'm with you. I'd have major problems with such a rule. But that doesn't mean the owner should have legal problems as a result. If we attack his property rights in order to have our way on his land, it can only come back and bite us when someone else uses the law to have their way on our land.

That's happening today, with total smoking bans in restaurants.

112 posted on 03/29/2006 11:17:40 AM PST by Shalom Israel (Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem.)
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To: Dead Corpse
That the employer, in this argument, is trying to establish a property claim to my car. What do you think we've been talking about?

Then you're confused. He doesn't want any claims to your car whatsoever. He simply wants you to park somewhere else, and you insist on forcing your way onto his land anyway. By rights he should set up a fence and guard booth, and staff it with armed guards. Forcible attempts to enter his property should be met with swift and lethal force.

113 posted on 03/29/2006 11:19:12 AM PST by Shalom Israel (Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem.)
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To: Shalom Israel
Refusing to hire ugly people isn't a violation of property rights, because nobody has a right to a job at my company. It's a privilege I grant, and I'm free to grant it selectively.

That's an interesting example. Apparently, Washington DC is one of the few places that bans discrimination based on personal appearance.

Which may explain why so many of our politicians are butt-ugly.

114 posted on 03/29/2006 11:19:15 AM PST by Potowmack ("In politics, madame, you need two things: friends, but above all an enemy." Brian Mulroney)
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To: kiriath_jearim
What it seems to boil down to, is that when you accept employment you give up all your rights to your employers whim. Sounds more and more like old times indenturement than a job.
115 posted on 03/29/2006 11:20:22 AM PST by fella (Respect does not equal fear unless your a tyrant.)
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To: stuartcr
I'm a civilian, I work for a civilian company that does not own the pink slip to my vehicle. I work on a military base. The government doesn't own the pink slip for my vehicle either, but I am restricted, as to what I can have in my vehicle.

But government property is different. It belongs to our lords and masters, so of course they can make rules. They can search your vehicle if they want... heck, they can do a body-cavity search on you anytime they want. They're our masters.

116 posted on 03/29/2006 11:20:44 AM PST by Shalom Israel (Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem.)
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To: fella
What it seems to boil down to, is that when you accept employment you give up all your rights to your employers whim.

Nonsense. All contracts have terms. When you agree to those terms, I guess you could say you've "given up your rights," but it would be a particularly worthless characterization. The reality is that the employer gives up rights: they grant you various conditional waivers to use their property, equipment, etc., as well as an obligation to pay you. If you refuse to comply with the conditions of those waivers, they can revoke them and kick you off their property.

To pretend that that's some sort of slavery is insane. The difference between a slave and an employee is that you can quit. Slaves can't quit. Employment without terms and obligations is a fiction that only exists in your fantasies.

117 posted on 03/29/2006 11:24:53 AM PST by Shalom Israel (Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem.)
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To: Shalom Israel

It is easy to say employers have absolute control over the interiors of cars and trucks allowed on their property, but I think the courts would disagree once an employer started such nonsense. The media will support anything against a gun, but an employer that tried to ban baby seats, or plaid seat covers, or carrying a spare tire, a bible in the glove compartment, or keeping windshield washer fluid in the windshield washer fluid holder would lose in court, justifiably so.


118 posted on 03/29/2006 11:26:42 AM PST by ansel12
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To: ansel12
It is easy to say employers have absolute control over the interiors of cars and trucks allowed on their property...

They have absolutely no control whatsoever over the interior. All they can do is say "park" or "don't park". That's it.

I think the courts would disagree once an employer started such nonsense.

That's probably true, but not very interesting; the court has a very sketchy history of upholding property rights--not to mention other civil rights.

...justifiably so.

In other words, you believe in taking away people's property rights unless you agree with their decisions? Nekulturny, Kamarad!

119 posted on 03/29/2006 11:30:26 AM PST by Shalom Israel (Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem.)
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To: Shalom Israel

That is true, but it shows what can be done on certain property and what cannot. The same people that can search me on their property, cannot search me on mine without a warrant...or at least it's supposed to be that way.

That's why I didn't bother getting another CCW when I moved back to VA.


120 posted on 03/29/2006 11:33:29 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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