Posted on 03/24/2006 8:28:46 AM PST by Blogger
Slain Minister's Wife to Be Charged With Murder Friday, March 24, 2006 MEMPHIS, Tenn. — The wife of a Tennessee pastor found shot dead in his house Wednesday will face first-degree murder charges, authorities announced Friday.
Mary Winklerwas found Thursday night with the couple's three daughters in Orange Beach, Ala., about 400 miles south of their home in Selmer.
Investigators with the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation said she was interviewed during the night and the charges were being prepared.
"We've interviewed her and she was cooperative," said Jennifer Johnson of the TBI, adding that once a warrant with the charges was drawn up, extradition proceedings would begin to have her returned to Tennessee.
Matthew Winkler was found shot to death in the bedroom of his parsonage Wednesday by church members who began searching for him after he failed to show up at an evening event at Selmer's Church of Christ.
Police said there were no signs of forced entry, but Winkler's wife and children — Breanna, 1; Mary Alice, 6; and Patricia, 8 — were gone.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
...geez, with BOTH his and her parents being ministers, it makes me wonder whether this was an arranged marriage...either way it does not change my deduction of the motive by process of elimination, that her husband was sexual abusing her kids, OR it was some bs psychological excuse du jour, (i.e. she's an unstable nutcase)
...if the 8yr old did somehow shoot her father, the mother had to know that by running she would be the prime suspect, so better to let the 8yr old take the blame as she would not serve time anyway...but none of that matters because one of the TBI spokesman did say "to my knowledge the children witnessed nothing"
...and lastly more on the "bs psychological excuse du jour"...it is my understanding that post partum depression occurs with the first 3 months of child birth...the last child is a 1 yr old...i don't know anything about bi-polar, but i will still bet that the end result of this will be he is proven to be yet another child molesting father/minister...upon both a physical and psychological examination there is no way the 6yr old and 8yr old will be able to hide the possibility that they were molested by their father
I don't want to go there yet. If that were known, would they let HIS father take the girls into his home?
Just wish we knew if the computer had been shot up. I'm still inclined to think an Internet porn addiction as a possibility. If they're that pious, that would be just as bad as anything else most people would find worth shooting someone over, especially with little children in the home and if he had promised over and over to stop.
However, there are subtle indications that she had been at least depressed - a friend told another friend that "ever since Breanna was born" - and one of the church people quoted in the paper said she sometimes acted "lonely" - but then, that would be normal moving to a new place.
A jury should buy one of those and she'll walk.
(BTW, what's a man of the cloth doing with a weapon? Not that there's anything wrong with that. AFAIK, my priest doesn't carry a gun, but hey, maybe he does, huh? "I know what you're thinkin' -- was my penance six Hail Marys or only five?")
Mary grew up at Laurel Ave CoC (per an article in the Knoxville News Sentinel) in Knoxville. I don't personally know if her father is/was a minister at that congregation or not, but it is also possible that her father is an elder in the CoC. Elders in the CoC can legally perform wedding ceremonies (in TN?) because they are pastors (pastor, elder and shepherd are used interchangeably in the NT when describing the role of elders in the church).
It wasn't an arranged marriage. They met in college. He grew up in Decautar, AL and she grew up in Knoxville, TN
He grew up in Alabama and lived in Tennessee. There's not many men in those two states who don't own a gun and hunt for sport. Also a church of Christ minister is no different from a "lay" person. He is merely someone who has the talent to preach God's word. There are no restrictions on him that are not placed on every Christian. He is not considered even considered a leader in the church. That is the role of the elders (or pastors or shepherds) as described in the New Testament.
"BTW, what's a man of the cloth doing with a weapon? Not that there's anything
wrong with that.
AFAIK, my priest doesn't carry a gun, but hey, maybe he does, huh?
"I know what you're thinkin' -- was my penance six Hail Marys or only five"
It's a Southern Thang.
Sunday afternoon target shooting after church and some eats is
still fairly common.
Besides, clergy traveling in the company of arms is just plain American
(re: "The Black Regiment" of The Revolutionary War)
http://www.norwalkcalvarybaptist.org/faithandour.htm
I have been in ministry for over 40 years and I own two handguns. I hardly see what being in ministry would rule out having guns.
I like target shooting, and would use one in self defense if called for.
Wasn't that for those who converted after marriage?
I don't see where it says anything about those who convert after marriage in I Cor 7:12-16 or the verses around it. Can you tell my why you think it only applies to those who convert after marriage?
This is an interesting post from another thread by a woman named Julie:
"Thanks to AK for this link: http://snipurl.com/o5ff . I noticed three things in this article, written by Matthew Winkler about his daughters several years ago.
1.) He can’t figure out how best to spell his older child’s nickname. First it’s Trisha, then Tricia. I may be nitpicking, but even my dyslexic husband can proofread that well and knows how to spell our children’s names. This indicates some small bit of distance or disregard for his child, especially as the piece was for publication. A very small thing, to be sure, but a tiny symptom of what may have been a larger problem.
2.) The overchurched use of the word “special” may be innocent, but the sentence “began to act in a special way towards her daddy” made me shiver. Probably it’s a contrived way of writing to a church audience, but to my admittedly jaded mind, it was a red flag. I might be paranoid, too.
3.) He refers to himself as “daddy” or “her daddy” consistently in the third person, which frankly creeps me out, as it’s something i have seen a lot of in the psych unit from pedophiles writing incest porn. It’s almost a hallmark of the incestuous father that they love to be called “daddy”, love to hear the word said, love to write it. They don’t say “I did it”, they say “she did special things for her daddy because she loves him.” EW. Just EWWWWWW.
Again, I am not suggesting that Mr. Winkler abused his children. I may be drawing a point in my own brain that people with degrees in theology can be trite, contrived writers, or maybe it just felt somewhat false or odd to me. It was a nice little article, once I got past the ICK feeling. And that ick feeling might just be me, coming from one of those all too common families where abuse was often perpetrated under the cover of God and religion and avoiding the appearance of evil, but enjoying the evil itself.
So, just my thought. Ew.
And no, i’m not saying it was okay for Mary to shoot Matthew on the basis of a sappy article written five years ago with weird phrasing and usage. I still don’t think it was okay for Mary to shoot Matthew at all."
it's all wrong... i had to read it several times before i knew what it meant... it is not the minister's wife who was slain... and if she were, it would be impossible to charge her with murder...
There's no article at the provided link. It's a google page that said nothing was found for the search criteria. The search criteria had Winkler in it and some other words.
txr, either scroll down on that above link, or try this one:
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:8BaOALhDVA4J:www.crievehall.org/familychronicle/20001108/page1.htm+winkler+site:crievehall.org&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=6
Another possible theory from another thread from TERRI :
(this theory would be in addition to the only other two possible theories imo - child molesting, or she was just plain nuts - but even a crazy person needs something to set them off)
"I know we have no basis for our speculation other than curiosity and gut feeling, but I predict that it will come out that this was somehow related to porn addiction. Having read many books on the subject written by pastor’s wives who’s families have “recovered” I see the writing on the wall.
My guess is that it had nothing to do with the children except that their parents lived a living hell and from which Mary had no place to turn without destroying her husband’s career.
I speculate that they had moved at some point to “start fresh” but there is always a pattern here. Mary saw it coming and most likely he “relapsed” while she was at work that first (or second) day. She had thought about it in advance and knew it because she could see the “cycle”.
The thing is, it’s so silent, and in her case it had to be an absolute secret, and the world tells one it isn’t “adultry”.
It makes the “victim spouse” literally physically ill and there appears no escape within the moral system in which they lived. In the Christian faith, you can’t even justify divorce for this despite that you KNOW in your mind, that at least to YOU that it is absolutely adultry.
People talked about PPD. I don’t think it was that but the hell she went through being compared at least in her own mind pregnant, postpartum, and simply “real”.
I bet that we will soon find that Pastor Winkler took the day, or at least half a day, off from work either Tuesday or Wednesday to “prepare his sermon”. I would bet a cheesecake that he spent the day “surfing the internet”.
I would even venture to guess that Mary was resentful
of taking the job perhaps under his pressure. Combine that with the upcoming anniversary, the sick feeling of seeing the “cycle”, the pressure to appear “perfection” with no where to turn, and she snapped.
If Mary ever mentioned this to ANYONE, it would have naturally resulted in the rumors about “inappropriateness” with the youth, even if there were none. If he ever used the church computer, same result.
Somehow I just don’t think it had anything to do with his own children. I agree that he seemed focused outside the family. I don’t think the acts/results would have been the same on Mary’s part if he had abused the children.
If this does come out, the public or anyone who hasn’t experienced this living hell, will not be as merciful as perhaps they should.
I think she ultimately knew the consequences and thus why she was so cooperative. I think she just wanted her personal secret intolerable hell to end.
Just gut theory."
The first link was a total bummer for me...the second one did lead to the article.
I read it and did not particularly care for the wording he used to get his point across, which was, he needs to reach out to his Heavenly Father as his two little daughters...at that time 3 yrs old and 15 months old...were reaching out to him as their earthly father. It seemed a little smarmy and contrived. His last sentence..."I long to hold the hand of God" was his summation of the entire piece. I'm not a fan of Max Lucado-type writing.
Back to the subject: I would have to know a lot more than this article, however, to suspect this man of something untoward regarding the children. I can only say it had an odd or off ring to me, but so do a lot of other things I read that I don't particularly care for.
continuation from TERRI:
"“Tennessee Bureau of Investigation agent John Mehr has said police know why she shot her husband, but he would not disclose the motive except to say police did not believe it was infidelity. He would not comment on whether Mary Winkler had accused her husband of abuse.”
Police “did not believe” it was infidelity. They know the motive, and either it is, or it isn’t, unless it’s porn, then it’s a matter of view point.
Understand that I am not in any way validating this as an excuse to kill. But it is a form of mental abuse that most can not even begin to comprehend, and that “the church” is for the most part in the dark about."
Thanks for the info. I have been reading hundreds and hundreds of articles and forum posts about this case and there is so much disparate info, it's unbelievable. Much of it is totally conflicting in details, so I am having trouble putting it all together here.
The latest thing I saw was that a friend of Mary's, Pam Killingsworth, had been to visit her in jail after church services today. Mary had asked her to send a note to the congregation apologizing for her actions!
"... She just said she was sorry and for me to write a note to the church saying that she was sorry for everything she had done," said Killingsworth as she walked away from the jail in tears. ..."
Also, others saw a piece on Fox News a little while ago with Mary's attorney speaking. He was hired by her father. He reportedly said that if the case were tried in the court of public opinion, Mary would win. No indication why he said that or Mary's alleged motive.
The lawyer also said that she doesn't seem to realize the gravity of her situation. Also that he doesn't want to say anything against Matthew Winkler because he hasn't been laid to rest yet.
Which brings me to the announcement of the visitation and funeral services, which had originally been announced as being planned for yesterday, Saturday, but didn't happen. Instead, the church members planted pansies in his honor in the churchyard, which was what Matthew had already been working on.
The new schedule:
Services for Matthew Winkler will be held at 11 a.m. Tuesday at the 4th Street Church of Christ in Selmer. Visitation will be held at Shackelford’s Funeral Home in Selmer from 5 p.m.-8 p.m. on Monday. A graveside service will be held at 3 p.m. Tuesday at Carroll County Memorial Gardens in Huntingdon, Tenn
Meanwhile, for Mary:
Mrs. Winkler will be arraigned at 1:30 p.m. Monday in McNairy County General Sessions Court in front of Judge Bob Gray.
The problem is that the paternal grandparents are going to have a signigicant advantage in coaching these kids as to what they say and don't say. The grandparents will want to protect the reputation of their son at all cost. I hope that the authorites got a statement from the children before placing them with the grandparents, not to mention counseling. Unless there is something the public does not know, the judge made a critical error in not placing these kids in a temporary foster home until this can be sorted out.
She must be living in another world, if she does not realize the severe consequences of shooting and killing someone, no matter who that might be...unless in a clearcut case of self defense.
I have asked the question why did she run? Did she really think she could get away from the scene and just get on with her life, scot-free? She drove 5oo miles before being stopped by police. The word is she was headed for a Condo in FL that she rented after the murder, right? What was the point? This is just too bizarre. There is something wrong mentally here.
No matter if, and I say if, the husband did something truly awful.
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