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Should helping people break the law be a crime? Hmmm...
1 posted on 03/18/2006 9:19:20 AM PST by sanormal
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To: sanormal

Put the Nuns in prison for aiding and abetting.

It's a sin to break God's laws and a sin to break man's laws!


2 posted on 03/18/2006 9:22:47 AM PST by stopem
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To: sanormal
In a tiny house on the West Side, two nuns provide a daily break for Mexican immigrant mothers struggling to raise families in a foreign culture

They aren't immigrants, and no one forced them to cross the border illegally into the land of the "foreign culture".

They are Mexican nationals illegally living and profiting off said foreign culture. Nothing more.

3 posted on 03/18/2006 9:26:48 AM PST by Regulator
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To: sanormal

I think churches should aid them and report them. Don't let them starve, but don't help them continue to break the law.


4 posted on 03/18/2006 9:31:10 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: sanormal
In England the Law of Sanctuary gave the fugitive (illegal person) 30 days grace period to stay within the confines of a church or monastery then the fugitive had a set number of days to leave the realm via a set and most direct route. The fugitive could not leave the road or was subject to the law as an outlaw.

Illegals are in effect outlaws.

5 posted on 03/18/2006 9:31:31 AM PST by Mike Darancette (In the Land of the Blind the one-eyed man is king.)
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To: sanormal

Exodus 22: 21 "Do not mistreat an alien or oppress him, for you were aliens in Egypt.

Leviticus 19: 33 " 'When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. 34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy 14: 28 At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, 29 so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.

Deuteronomy 16: 13 Celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles for seven days after you have gathered the produce of your threshing floor and your winepress. 14 Be joyful at your Feast—you, your sons and daughters, your menservants and maidservants, and the Levites, the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns.

Deuteronomy 24 14 “You shall not oppress a hired servant who is poor and needy, whether one of your brethren or one of the aliens who is in your land within your gates.

Ezekiel 47: 21 "You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22 You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the aliens who have settled among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. 23 In whatever tribe the alien settles, there you are to give him his inheritance," declares the Sovereign LORD.

Malachi 3: 5 "So I will come near to you for judgment. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive aliens of justice, but do not fear me," says the LORD Almighty.


6 posted on 03/18/2006 9:34:30 AM PST by Raycpa
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To: sanormal
"struggling to raise families in a foreign culture."

Foreign culture!? They're the invading colonists fro a foreign culture. IF the nuns are so dedicated to "helping", let them go to Mexico.

9 posted on 03/18/2006 9:42:14 AM PST by isrul
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To: sanormal
The Hearst syndicate just can't bring themselves to print the words illegal aliens.

Hearst, instead, hides behind the words migrant or undocumented immigrant.

12 posted on 03/18/2006 9:46:55 AM PST by Amerigomag
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To: sanormal

Baker's Evangelical Dictionary
of Biblical Theology

Foreigner [N] [E]

Person from a different racial, ethnic, and linguistic group as in contrast to a "native." Circumstances during biblical times often forced people to emigrate to another country, where they would become "resident aliens" (see Gen 19:9; Ruth 1:1). A less permanent settler was known as a "stranger" or "temporary resident." Sometimes the term "foreigner" is used to translate a Hebrew word that generally means an "outsider" from a different race, tribe, or family.

The Old Testament. The creation account records the first human residence in the garden of Eden. With the fall, humanity is exiled from God's immediate presence into a "foreign" land. This is the background to the important Old Testament theme of the promise of land.

After the judgment of the flood, the Book of Genesis records the Table of Nations (chap. 10), portraying the remarkable growth of the human community with its variety of racial, linguistic, and political divisions. The tower of Babel incident (11:1-9) is the reason for these divisions, as God confuses the language and disperses the human race. A divided humanity, alienated from God and from itself, is in desperate need of a home.

If the early history of the Bible ends with curse—the disintegration of humanity into many nations—the beginning of Israel's national history (chap. 12) commences with blessing as a family receives a divine pledge of land and a promise of progeny that will bless the alienated nations. Abram and his family, the founders of the Israelite nation, obeyed the call of God to emigrate to this land, leaving Mesopotamia to become resident aliens in Canaan (12:10; 20:1; 23:4). The patriarchs' lives were marked by a rootlessness, as the only land they actually received was a grave for Sarah, Abraham's wife (chap. 23). This pilgrim existence characterized early Israel (Exod 6:4), as the embryonic nation was shaped in Egypt, another foreign country (Exod 22:20; 23:9).

When Israel was constituted as a nation at Sinai (Exod 19-24), a concern for resident aliens was etched into the legal system. The alien peoples received special protection under the law (Exod 22:21; 23:9), and were even to be loved as native Israelites (Lev 19:34). Such protection was particularly necessary as immigrants would not have the social network of kinship relations for support during exigencies. Yet, although ancient Near Eastern law codes stressed protection for the widow and orphan, only Israel's contained legislation for the resident alien. This was probably due to the peculiar circumstances of her origin.

After Sinai and the wilderness wanderings, Israel received the gift of the promised land. In order to occupy it, however, she had to purge the land of its foreign population. Foreigners in this context represented hostile agents that would contaminate Israel and render her unholy before God. For the same reason, covenants and marriages with foreigners were forbidden. Paradoxically, only if her religion was pure could Israel be of help to foreigners (cf. Rahab, Ruth, Naaman, the widow of Zarepath). If Israel became sinful in the holy land, she would lose God's permanent presence, as he would become like a temporary resident (Jer 14:8).

And yet Israel's entire existence was bound up with being a blessing to foreigners (Gen 12:3). Some psalms envisioned the time when all nations would become subject to an Israelite king who would rule the world with justice. Solomon's prayer at the inauguration of the temple implied that it was to be a house of prayer for all peoples, as Israelite and foreigner could both pray to its Lord (1 Kings 8:41-43; cf. Isa 56:3-8). The prophets predicted that all nations would go up to Jerusalem to learn the Torah and depart changed people, no longer alienated from each other (Isa 2:1-4; Micah 4:1-5). There would be one humanity (Isa 19:23-25), speaking a purified language (Zep 3:9).

Although Israel received a residence in the promised land, she was reminded that the land was God's and that he allowed her to settle on it as a resident alien (Lev 25:23; cf. 1 Chron 29:15; Psalm 39:12; 119:19). Israel must wait for a true home.

The New Testament. By the time of the New Testament, Israel had become extremely exclusive, largely forgetting her mission to the nations. When the Messiah arrived, however, foreigners were present (Matt 2:1-12). During his ministry, he constantly interacted with them, indicating that God's love embraced the world (Luke 17:18; John 4 ). A Roman soldier pronounced a eulogy at his death (Luke 23:47). Death broke the hostile powers that caused human divisions (Eph 2:14-18). In Christ there was no longer any important racial, linguistic, or ethnic difference (Gal 3:26-29). Pentecost (Acts 2) reversed the judgment of the tower of Babel (Gen 11:1-9).

At the same time, there was the realization that while members of the church had their citizenship in heaven, they were resident aliens on earth (1 Peter 1:17; 2:11). Before the coming of the kingdom, they had to live a nomadic existence as strangers and pilgrims, much like the patriarchs of the Old Testament (Heb 11:9-16). They must live in hope and faith, praying for the invasion of the kingdom and waiting patiently for the gift of a new Canaan, a new Eden, where they can reside with their God (Rev. 21-22). Meanwhile the church must act by helping literal strangers and foreigners, remembering her own identity and God's love for the powerless (Matt 25:35,38,43,44). Hospitality (philoxenos, lit. love for the stranger) is to be a characteristic of the follower of Christ (1 Peter 4:9; cf. Rom 12:13; Heb 13:2).

Stephen G. Dempster

See also Nations, the

Bibliography. G. Ahlsträ , TDOT, 4:52-58; F. C. Fensham, JNES 21 (1962): 129-39; D. E. Gowan, Int 41 (1987): 341-53; D. Kellerman, TDOT, 2:439-49; B. J. Malina, Int 41 (1987): 354-67; G. C. Moucarry, Themelios 14 (1988): 17-20; R. Patterson, BSac 130 (1973): 223-34; H. E. von Waldrow, CBQ 32 (1970): 182-204.


20 posted on 03/18/2006 9:59:11 AM PST by Raycpa
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To: sanormal

Feed some homeless person or let them stay in a shelter even if they were illegal? Of course I would expect no less from a church. Hide illegals in order to keep them from deportation? THAT should be a crime.


26 posted on 03/18/2006 10:15:13 AM PST by mthom
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To: gubamyster; HiJinx; Stellar Dendrite

ping


28 posted on 03/18/2006 10:22:34 AM PST by raybbr
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To: sanormal

On the 15th of November, 2005 Congressman Tom Tancredo reported that Senator Bennett, at the behest of Mormon Lobbyist, (R-UT) had snuck an amendment into Title 8, Section 1324 of U.S. Code. That law now allows any group claiming to be a religious organization to encourage, transport or conceal any illegal alien as long as they are claiming to be a minister or missionary. How is that for a terrorist loop-hole?


30 posted on 03/18/2006 10:22:52 AM PST by utahminuteman
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To: sanormal

Aiding and abetting comes to mind.


39 posted on 03/18/2006 10:31:42 AM PST by NY Attitude (You are responsible for your safety until the arrival of Law Enforcement Officers!)
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To: sanormal
This is a tough one. I'm all for religious freedom but I don't like this side-show of helping the unlawful blend into society. I have no problem with offering aid but I am concerned about gov't asking churches and religious groups to become immigration enforcement because gov't has already dropped that ball. Let ICE pull raids of soup kitchens!

This isn't about hiding persecuted people who might otherwise be murdered by a gov't so the moral position of these religious folks is undermined except for rendering necessary services like providing food to the starving or basic medical check-ups, etc. We *CAN* find a balance between these two things.

I don' t know why this is a concern, however, since SCOTUS already made it clear public schools must teach illegals which is no different (worse, even) than the English instruction the nun in this article is offering.

65 posted on 03/18/2006 10:52:43 AM PST by newzjunkey (All I need is a safe home and peace of mind. Why am I still in CA?)
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To: sanormal; 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 3pools; 3rdcanyon; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; ...

The nun asks if it should be a crime to help these indigent illegals.

That is open to debate, I suppose, but the matter is moot right now.

Right now, it is a crime. On that point, there is no debate.


86 posted on 03/18/2006 12:49:54 PM PST by HiJinx (~ www.proudpatriots.org ~ Serving Those Who Serve Us ~ Operation Easter/Passover ~)
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To: sanormal

Then what are they going to do to the governments that give illegals free eduction and medical care?


98 posted on 03/18/2006 4:01:17 PM PST by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: sanormal
Father Jim Loiacono, pastor of Our Lady of Refuge Catholic Church in Eagle Pass, four blocks from the Texas-Mexico border.

If this cowardly selfish twit actually gave a rat's behind for the "poor" he'd un-ass himself and go the four blocks to help the Mexicans where they live. But that's not the real agenda is it, padre. Lying in the name of the Lord is not a good thing, you POS, even though you yourself are probably a flaming atheist and couldn't care less. For now.

99 posted on 03/18/2006 4:06:33 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: sanormal

THE BIBLE AND THE BORDER: ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION FROM A CHRISTIAN PERSPECTIVE

--Robert Klein Engler

HE IS AN ILLINOIS MINUTEMAN!!


(CHICAGO--7 Nov. '05) Most social observers agree that the United States is a very religious country. By all measures of religiosity, the U. S. ranks high. At least 85 percent of the U. S. population claims they believe in God. Church attendance is high in the U. S. and so are donations to religious groups. With such a large number of citizens holding religious beliefs, it is little wonder that these beliefs are beginning to enter the debate over illegal immigration. To some observers it may seem that God and the border patrol are going to meet head-on.

If the U. S. is a very religious country, then it is also a predominantly Christian country. Some 80 percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians. Yale professor S. P. Huntington argues that Anglo-Protestant Christian beliefs are at the core of traditional American values. Anglo-Protestant beliefs, however, have changed and developed through the centuries since the founding of the nation. From the doorway of a storefront church on the south side of Chicago to the stained-glass windows of New York City's St. Patrick's Cathedral, the U. S. offers multiple expressions of the Christian faith.


Many Christians are now caught up in the debate about illegal immigration. Some do not know what to do to stop illegal immigration while at the same time living a faith that asks its believers to practice charity and forgiveness. Other Christians mistakenly believe that groups who are against illegal immigration, groups like the Minuteman Project, are immoral and dangerous. These Christians believe that illegal immigrants should be seen as people who need our assistance and compassion, not our judgment and condemnation.

Does the Bible and Christian theology have anything to add to the illegal immigration debate? Are Christians supposed to act one way or another on this social issue? I think Christianity does have some answers to the moral questions raised by illegal immigration. These answers are to be found both in Christian scripture and theology. In my view it is possible to be both a good Christian and have secure borders. It is also possible to demand illegal immigrants be deported and to practice Christian charity.

In chapter 13 of the apostle Paul's Letter to the Romans, the English translation reads, "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed..." (Romans 13:1-2). Clearly, this is advice to Christians to follow the laws of their nation and to respect the laws of other nations.

When people come to the U. S. illegally, they are committing a crime. They are doing something that is against the governing authorities of the U. S. Illegal immigrants are not good Christians from Paul's perspective. Illegal immigrants may have reasons for breaking U. S. laws, but those reasons do not excuse their illegal actions. We should not let charity and compassion blind us from the criminal act illegal immigrants commit.

Those who work in a law-abiding way against illegal immigration and those who ask that the laws of the U. S. be enforced are being good Christians in doing so. Likewise, those who demand that illegal immigrants be detained and deported respect the governing authorities of their nation. In line with Paul's argument, they are doing what good Christians ought to do.

This is not to say that illegal immigrants should be treated badly. Christians practice charity and respect for the individual, but they do not condone law breaking. Law-abiding citizens of the U. S. have every right to make sure their borders are secure and that illegal immigrants are removed from their country as quickly and humanely as possible.

There are ideas implied in Paul's other writings that also shed light on the contemporary issue of illegal immigration. In his Letter to Philemon, Paul address the issue of what is to be done about a runaway slave. In short, Paul sends back the runaway slave, Onesimus, and encourages his master, Philemon, to accept and forgive him. This may seem an unusual act by Paul to those who know that under Roman law, the master had absolute authority over the life and person of the slave.

Although illegal immigrants are not slaves the way Onesimus was a slave in the apostle Paul's time, we can see illegal immigrants today as persons running away from their moral obligations to improve their own country and not run down ours. If that is the case, then it is certainly a moral and Christian thing to encourage illegal immigrants to return home and make life better in their own country.

Moving from scripture to the domain of Christian theology, we learn that moral actions have both an objective and subjective component. The theologian Thomas Aquinas held that both subjective intention and objective consequence are necessary in making a moral judgment. In one of Thomas's examples, while out hunting it is better to kill your father believing he is a stag, than to kill a stag believing it is your father.

From the point of view of the moral theology of Thomas Aquinas, we may judge illegal immigrants from Mexico from both a subjective and objective point of view. Objectively, illegal immigrants are breaking U. S. immigration laws, but do these criminals have a subjective intention that outweighs the objective criminal act? Is breaking U. S. immigration laws justified because it is the only way poor Mexicans can feed their families, or do illegal immigrants who come to the U. S. have another choice?

Coming to the U. S. illegally is not the only choice poor Mexicans can make to improve their lives. They could also choose to stay in Mexico and work to make Mexico a better country. In fact, as good Christians it is their moral obligation to do this. It is better to improve Mexico than to be a criminal in the U. S. Illegal immigration may be the easy way out, but it is not the moral way. Christians are supposed to do what is good, even if the good is difficult to do.

Although Christianity encourages acts of charity, we cannot be both charitable and law breakers. We cannot rob Peter to pay Paul. The Archbishop of Mexico City should be encouraged to prevent Mexicans from coming illegally to the U. S. He should encourage Mexicans to work for Christian social change in Mexico instead of criticizing U. S. immigration policies. Unless the Mexican state changes, many Mexican citizens will never be able to have a fulfilled life. Nor can they find fulfillment by breaking U. S. immigration laws. To push the poor from your door to your neighbor's door is not an example of Christian charity.

It remains to be seen what other religious questions will be raised about illegal immigration to the U. S. It seems clear for the moment that as the debate over illegal immigration grows, so, too will the theological and scriptural debate over this issue grow. It may very well be that just as liberal Christianity in the U. S. inspired the civil rights movement of the late 20th century, so, conservative Christianity will inspire the secure border movement of the early 21st century.

Robert Klein Engler lives in Chicago. He is an adjunct professor at Roosevelt University. His book, A WINTER OF WORDS, about the turmoil at Daley College, is available from amazon.com.


102 posted on 03/18/2006 5:18:58 PM PST by chicagolady (Mexican Elite say: EXPORT Poverty Let the American Taxpayer foot the bill !)
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To: sanormal

How are they breaking the law? Are the concealing the illegals from ICE? Are they providing forged documents or the names of people that can provide them?
I don't like illegals, but to me it looks like they are doing God's work, ministering to the needy without spending a single taxpayer dime.


107 posted on 03/18/2006 6:42:03 PM PST by Little Ray (I'm a reactionary, hirsute, gun-owning, knuckle dragging, Christian Neanderthal and proud of it!)
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To: sanormal

If parisheners withhold their tithes, it won't be long before the church leaders wisen up to acting within the law.


108 posted on 03/18/2006 6:56:51 PM PST by azhenfud (He who always is looking up seldom finds others' lost change.)
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To: sanormal

Liberation theology bump for later.


142 posted on 03/20/2006 8:42:19 AM PST by Euro-American Scum (A poverty-stricken middle class must be a disarmed middle class)
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