Posted on 03/13/2006 12:17:02 PM PST by cope85
Free Inside Every 'Guest Worker' Plan: A Ticking Social Security Time Bomb. Barbara Anderson
March 8, 2006 ‘Yessirree, ladies and gents, step right up. Get yer 'guest worker' elixir with secret ingredient that will fix what ails ya. Goes down smooth and easy and costs just pennies a day.” So say the snake oil senators trying to sell this poison.
Every “guest worker” program (read amnesty) plan being advanced in the Senate has in it provisions for acceptance into the Social Security program the millions of illegal aliens who have managed to sneak into the country and can “prove” with dubious documents that they have worked here for some length of time. Nobody knows just how many of these workers there are, as nobody is allowed to ask a person’s citizenship status when applying for welfare benefits, for instance. The “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy is applied by most government agencies. The Bear Stearns estimate is 25+ million. This is just for the workers and some family here, but there are many more waiting in Mexico for the word to come. These other family members are the recipients of the $20 BILLION dollars sent home, and out of our economy, to Mexico from the U.S. last year. If they choose not to come, they may still be eligible for benefits from the primary worker’s “right” to Social Security benefits. Thus, they may be eligible for Social Security benefits even if they have never lived in the U.S.
SSA is an Executive branch agency whose director is appointed by the President. Director Joann Barnhardt is so eager to give U.S. Social Security benefits to Mexicans that she signed the U.S.-Mexico Totalization Agreement in July 2004 and built an SSA building in Mexico: sort of a branch office, paid for by American taxpayers. Barnhardt is among our many civil servants who can’t keep accurate records. She told the Senate that her agency isn’t able to prevent fraudulent wage transfers for years prior to 2004. Her solution: give away benefits paid for by citizens of this country to people who don’t deserve them.
We are not entirely in the dark as to how this amnesty would affect Social Security. In 1986 we were sold the same elixir. We don’t hear the leading salesmen, Ted Kennedy, Orrin Hatch or John McCain, who are touting the 2006 rerun of amnesty, bragging about their 1986 votes. In 1986 we were promised that amnesty would be given to 300,000 illegal aliens, and that would be the final, final amnesty. The reality was that the final count was nearly 3 million. Well, we know how things just grow in the atmosphere of Washington, D.C. when you take your eyes off them. The “one-time” amnesty showed INS and SSA knowingly accepted massive numbers of fraudulent rent receipts, earning records and birth records. The country is now awash with fake I.D. and other documents produced by entrepreneurs who seized on the lax requirements of businesses and government for these documents.
When an illegal alien attains legal status, whether by marrying an American or by “guest worker” program, that person is issued a genuine SSN. It is used to earn future wages and Social Security credits, obtain public funded benefits, financial aid for education, and the list goes on. That new SSN enables the illegal alien to retroactively access wage credit for money in the Earnings Suspense File, even if they were using a bogus SSN or “borrowing” a valid SSN assigned to someone else! It’s the little bomb in each and every “guest worker” program.
Even with a speeded up program, one can imagine the literally millions of illegal aliens in line applying for a SSN, who will be given first priority at SSA offices, bogging down the system for legal American workers. Those already in the system can look forward to their benefits being handled in a much less efficient way, unless an enormous amount of new personnel is brought in to handle the hordes of new people being enrolled in the system. Even that remedy will ensure chaos because of the vastness of the task.
However, the same people who are saying we don’t have the means and personnel to track down those who are here illegally, are perfectly willing to accept the enormous task of trying to determine…….who are allowed benefits.
By law, if an illegal alien had bogus pay stubs or W-2s (making up numerous names and SSNs) from 1980-2000, and was given amnesty OR became legal, we would have to give them “credit” for those 20 years of illegal work. Considering the money at stake, both in past Social Security payroll deductions and future benefits, can anyone doubt that these illegal aliens will do all possible to lay claim to “wage credits” and FICA deductions for the SSN they’ve been fraudulently using? Does anyone suspect they might also try to take wage credit that doesn’t belong to them?
This little bomb is currently in every guest worker plan, no matter who is pushing it: McCain, Kennedy, Hatch, Craig, Domenici, Specter or any of the other senate panderers. If you see your senator in this lineup, you should be especially indignant, since these are the main pushers, but there are plenty of others poised to join them, if their constituents don’t make too much noise. Republicans pander to their contributors who love cheap labor, while Democrats are already counting the heads of those they think will be voting for them. Oh, did I mention that voting rights come along with this little package, once they are deemed legal.
How many years have we been hearing that Social Security is going broke? Younger people paying into the plan have all but given up any hope of ever seeing anything of what they have put into it. Older people have had a false sense of security about the safety of their benefits, it seems. With 25+ million (including beneficiaries) coming onto the rolls of Social Security, who can doubt that all benefits will be sharply curtailed.
The Senate is developing its immigration bill right now. There is a strong push for “guest worker” (amnesty) provisions to be added to, or replace, the commonsense bill passed by the House, which has no Social Security provisions in it. Every senator knows the pernicious effects such an amnesty will have on the country, mostly on low-wage earners and the middle class. It was known in 1986 when it was passed with the promise it was a one-time amnesty, but the same mindset that promoted and allowed amnesty in 1986 is rampant in the Senate today. Senators who will vote for this know what will happen, but are keeping quiet about it as they did in 1986. Are your senators among them?
Giving amnesty to several millions of illegal aliens, which automatically entitles them to future AND PAST Social Security would be like throwing anchors on a sinking ship. This ship is named the U.S. Social Security.
Let's say that you are right but what about earned income credit?
Some of the "guest worker" programs will require the "guest worker" to file taxes for prior years missed -- though some worked here using individual taxpayer ID numbers handed out by the IRS, presumably they filed their taxes.
My concern is earned income credit. Many of those "guest workers" filing taxes for prior year will be getting checks from the government for those back years and for all future years owing to their low wages.
I seems to me that could be a fact and would more than likely cost us more than we get from their FICA.
And what can this 'cheap labor" do? Not much, that's why they are cheap. As for the standard of living, that's ridiculous. Americans have a high standard of living because their labor is worth a lot because they are educated and skilled, not because they are Americans. It is frightening how little econ people know.
"The Democrats look at the illegals as a potential voting block.
They want power and this is just another meants to get it."
I suspect that some Republicans have the same motive.
Let's face it, just about everyone wants more for themselves, and let the other guy look out for his own well being. I like to ask my liberal friends if they look for the union label when they purchase things. None of them do, and neither do I. I do look for goods made in the USA though, and I don't want anyone working for me that isn't legal.
Almost right. Actually you might say politicians look at the illegals as a voting block.
Well sort of right and as usual can not see the obvious. Actually the true bulk votes will not come from the illegals at all. It will come from American Citizens that are voting for the elected official that deports all of the illegals.
THAT is the real "hispanic vote."
Studies have shown that 2nd generation immigrants birth-rates slow as well. The current SS pyramid-scheme will require a geometrically expanding population. The 'guest-worker' plan will not solve the problem. It will only shift to the shoulders of the next generation (and be even worse then).
The 'guest-worker' plan will simply pamper the Boomer generation which refuses to take responsibility for the Socialist programs that they have put in place or perpetuated for their sole gain over the last 40 years.
It's time for this country to sober-up, and address the problem. We're going to wake-up with a hangover, but at least we might still have a nation left.
Great post (53):
Demonstrates the inherently criminal mindset of those who sneak into the country in violation of the law.
If they're willing to break a Federal law to be here, they're not likely to have any real respect for any other of our laws.
Most people are of average intelligence and do repetitive jobs. Jobs any illegal can do. And if allowed to, will.
Not much, that's why they are cheap.
They are cheap because they are plentiful, expendable, and are paid under the table with no taxes, social security, unemployment insurance, health insurance, etc.
It's frightening how little econ you know.
Not hardly. I am denying that what you are saying is accurate. You have nothing to back up your wild-ass claims.
My "sediments" exactly. Consider it a surcharge.
I simply do not understand why President Bush does not get the extreme animosity his base has for illegal immigration.
1. He's a globalist tool?
2. His family's business interests are making $ billions from business dealings with mexico?
3. Vincente fox has "the fbi files"?
4. He's a dumb ass?
"The illegal has to have the check stubs and prove that he is the one that was paid/deducted. The employer records have to confirm. The Social Security Administration has to confirm."
right, NOW they'll have to comply with our laws.
>>>I simply do not understand why President Bush does not get the extreme animosity his base has for illegal immigration.<<<
You don't? He is an elitist: a "Wall Street Journal/Chamber of Commerce" style of elitist. He knows what is best for you; and what is best for you, in the eyes of the elite, is to have plenty of cheap labor for business, and plenty of cheap labor to clean the houses of the elite. He also knows that to truly implement globalization we must eliminate our borders and give up our culture. He is also a socialist-at-heart, so naturally he would want to forcefully take your hard-earned money and give it away to the poor (those "undocumented workers", who are, in his words, "taking jobs no one wants").
>>>This is the one thing he has done that annoys people the most.<<<
"Infuriates" or "enrages" are more appropriate words than "annoys".
>>>It almost seems deliberate.<<<
Of course it is.
Let me explain it to you. Even the illegals who work hard and do not apply for aid of any kind depend on medical care when they are sick or injured. They do not have the money to pay the bill, and either the taxpayers pay their bill or the hospital and Dr take a loss. Add that up and you will see that it contributes to higher medical bills and fewer services available to US citizens. The hard working illegal uses many services that he does not pay taxes to support in many cases. His money is for the most part sent home so even sales taxes paid in this country are kept to a minimum.
What happens too many times is the hard working illegal decides to stay and bring his family into the US. His job does not pay enough to support a family in the US so he is dependent on others to pay for things for his family that he simply cannot afford. Medical bills now for a family instead of just him, taxpayer funded meals at school for his children, taxpayer or others have to pay for his children's needed school supplies,taxpayers pay for extra programs needed for students who don't speak English, and when children in the family are young they get assistance for formula and baby food. The list goes on and on even for a hard working illegal who is not deliberately milking the system the costs far exceed his contribution to the system.
Then there truly are a large number arriving who think they deserve everything Americans have and do set out to milk the system. Using false documents they sign the women and children up for every welfare program you can imagine claiming there is no man in the house. In reality there is a man in the house or the men/women are working at jobs paying cash so they still get benefits.
We do have our own citizen "leeches" but the difference is the system is set up to deal with them, taxes are raised to support their needs and their bills are paid out of the system. Illegals are not part of the equation, when illegals use medical facilities or certain social programs, no one wants to pay their bill, they are not part of the system. What happens is a battle with local gov't wanting the feds to pick up the bill and in most cases they won't. The local services run out of funding because they are overwhelmed with people no one wants to pay for, because they are illegal and not part of the system in place. The result is services decline in the area of large populations of illegals and taxes go up. Drs leave for other areas, and medical facilities go broke and close their doors.
We really can't afford illegals, even the hard working ones are a drain on the system. Illegals are willing to take jobs at lower wages and poor or dangerous working conditions, in turn they depress the local job market so those who have to compete with them for work move elsewhere. It causes chaos and a breakdown in the system where ever there are large numbers of illegals. That is why areas with a large population of illegals become slums in a hurry. They cannot sustain themselves and those who paid the taxes when they arrived have left. One hard working illegal may not seem like a problem, but when you look at the big picture the problems are clear.
I'm going to say that you are some what correct. Where I would disagree with you is how the problem of SS short fall occurred. The way it really occurred is not with the boomer's or of not having children entering the work force.
What really happened was that the politicians took the SS monies out of the SS plan and transfered it into the general tax fund to offset other government programs, give the politicians cost of living raises every year, voted for themselves to be able to retire on the current salary and also receive pay raises every year, giving immigrants relatives SS who have not work or contributed to SS in the U.S., giving asylum refugees and their dependents SS and Medicare. I could go on and on but I think that after thinking it over that the real reason why SS is the way it is today does not lie with the boomer's, or their offspring nor lack of monies that were put in the SS program.
That was an excellent, lucid post, probably the best I've read on this subject, and I thank you very much for taking the time to write it.
It's very difficult for me to respect many of the people on the anti-illegal side, since so many of them seem to feel intense hatred and disrespect for them. I don't like people who don't respect people, and so I tend not to like or respect their arguments. Your post was one of the few I've read that didn't fall into that trap, and for that I am grateful.
But in my view, one problem with your argument is that it seems to imply that our institutions are competent, well-run and under attack. I don't know about the under attack part, but I do know that our medical facilities have been in decline for decades, as have our social services and even the bus system. Is this overall decline, due to poor management, not more to blame for the problems? Is our system using illegal aliens as an excuse, to paper over the real problems with how our cities are run?
Now, if the problem is illegals taking advantage of services they are not entitled to, it seems like the solution is not to scapegoat the illegals, but change the way services are provided. Again, illegals are being blamed for an overpriced and poorly run social service regime that they - by definition - didn't create.
I used to live in LA, where there were a lot of illegals. Now I live in Pennsylvania, which is very whitebread. Does this create a heaven on earth, where all workers are decent, competent and intelligent people? No. As a general rule, I've found it's much easier to find people willing to work hard in LA thanks to competition from illegals. Service in stores and overall is much better, too. Here, we have a lot of tired employees who are just going through the grim motions towards quitting time. (Trust me, you haven't seen grim until you've been to Pittsburgh. LA's employees are not capable of it.) Despite the lack of illegals, the quality of life in a city that's shrinking and seems to have little future to look forward to is very poor.
Los Angeles is growing, is dynamic and of course a lot of that growth and dynamism is created by illegals. I enormously prefer to live in a place with growth and dynamism as opposed to shrinking and decline. (I am planning to spend less than a year more here because I can't stand the stagnation, not to mention the cold weather.)
In short, having no illegals may be a worse cure than the disease, a point I tried to make in my original post. Stagnation is very painful. Dynamism and growth create an interesting environment where life is far more worthwhile.
I could certainly sign on to a guest worker program, as George W Bush appears to be proposing. But eliminating illegals, I think, would create a stagnating country that would be worse than the problems illegals cause.
I hope this has at least been interesting. I look forward to further dialogue.
D
I took the time to answer you because you seem sincere in your posts, and I didn't feel like you were on the thread just to stir trouble. I enjoy a discussion with anyone who is being reasonable, whether or not I agree with them.
I do want to say there is a lot of resentment toward illegals because of the problems the issue of illegal immigration creates, not simply because of their race. Sometimes that resentment is seen as racism, but usually it is sheer frustration that is taken as racism by those who don't understand the whole picture.
There of course are racists on both sides of the issue, I personally have encountered more racism from some of the more recent immigrants that are involved with certain groups, like La Raza than I have ever seen with people who oppose illegal immigration. The groups that support illegals love to promote the idea that we who oppose illegal immigration are all just racist, but it really isn't true.
I met a lady last night that is rabidly opposed to illegal immigration. She was even using racial slur words to describe illegals. I would think she is racist, by hearing her words but she is Hispanic. She is of Spanish and Mexican descent and her family has lived in this area since the early Spanish colonies. She is not really racist, but she is fed up and frustrated. She told me her husband had always worked in agriculture and now it was hard for him to get a job, because of the competition of illegal workers who are willing to work for less money. She is angry because her husband, in his late 40's has to find a new career and rightfully or wrongly she blames the illegals. Of course if she were "white" she would be labeled as a racist. Racism is not always as clear as some think, some of the worst racists I have seen are careful what they say and are not outwardly racist, but treat those of other races terribly. That to me is racism, as much or more so than those who are simply frustrated beyond reason and say things they likely don't mean out of anger. To me a person's actions speak louder than words. I am hesitant to label anyone a racist without knowing them.
On one of the talking head shows they showed the Mexican groups that are forming and demonstrating 70,000 stong that demonstrated in Chicago for amnesty and human rights for the illegals, and one big mouth woman said she doesn't think Capitalism is working in America and she wants socialism in America.
These illegals are sending millions of dollars back home to their country while our country is being used and abused and our Government doesn't care! Don't want socialism? Than you better contact your representative cause that's where we are heading, the selling out of America!
The real way to fix social security is to privatize it, along with all the other entitlements. I find it difficult to believe that lots of low wage workers can keep the present system afloat. Mexicans can and ought to work for what people will pay them and keep/save almost all of what they earn, just like native-born Americans. If they bring some of that income back to Mexico so that the country isn't so desperately poor, that's good and should be encouraged, particularly if some aspects of our system rub off on Mexico by virtue of the fact that many are going back and forth all the time, preferably with cars or greyhound buses instead of through elaborate tunnels dug underneath fortified walls. We shouldn't be required to support them, but protectionists and nativist types never worry about the costs of enforcing draconian laws that encourage more criminal behavior in the first place.
I would certainly agree with you that the group of nice folks who talk about returning "Aztlan" to Mexico are expressing racism. I'm not sure why they would want the US returned to Mexico when Mexico has done such a bad job running their part. Heck, Mexico has a better (warmer) climate than California, it has all the natural advantages of great beaches and the like, but whose citizens are better off?
I think it's very difficult to distinguish people who are fed up with illegals due to their problems and those who are fed up due to racism. I don't like seeing hostility expressed between any sets of people, whether it be arabs going after infidels or conservatives going after immigrants.
This country is a nation of immigrants, after all, and the slogan on the Statue of Liberty moves me: "Bring us your poor, your huddled masses yearning to break free." It seems to me that we've gone beyond this philosophy and not in a positive way.
Finally, I'd be really curious to hear what you think of my comments on stagnation versus dynamism, with the society of illegals representing a growing, dynamic society far better to live in than the static, drab life of Pittsburgh where there are no illegals.
Many thanks.
D
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