That was an excellent, lucid post, probably the best I've read on this subject, and I thank you very much for taking the time to write it.
It's very difficult for me to respect many of the people on the anti-illegal side, since so many of them seem to feel intense hatred and disrespect for them. I don't like people who don't respect people, and so I tend not to like or respect their arguments. Your post was one of the few I've read that didn't fall into that trap, and for that I am grateful.
But in my view, one problem with your argument is that it seems to imply that our institutions are competent, well-run and under attack. I don't know about the under attack part, but I do know that our medical facilities have been in decline for decades, as have our social services and even the bus system. Is this overall decline, due to poor management, not more to blame for the problems? Is our system using illegal aliens as an excuse, to paper over the real problems with how our cities are run?
Now, if the problem is illegals taking advantage of services they are not entitled to, it seems like the solution is not to scapegoat the illegals, but change the way services are provided. Again, illegals are being blamed for an overpriced and poorly run social service regime that they - by definition - didn't create.
I used to live in LA, where there were a lot of illegals. Now I live in Pennsylvania, which is very whitebread. Does this create a heaven on earth, where all workers are decent, competent and intelligent people? No. As a general rule, I've found it's much easier to find people willing to work hard in LA thanks to competition from illegals. Service in stores and overall is much better, too. Here, we have a lot of tired employees who are just going through the grim motions towards quitting time. (Trust me, you haven't seen grim until you've been to Pittsburgh. LA's employees are not capable of it.) Despite the lack of illegals, the quality of life in a city that's shrinking and seems to have little future to look forward to is very poor.
Los Angeles is growing, is dynamic and of course a lot of that growth and dynamism is created by illegals. I enormously prefer to live in a place with growth and dynamism as opposed to shrinking and decline. (I am planning to spend less than a year more here because I can't stand the stagnation, not to mention the cold weather.)
In short, having no illegals may be a worse cure than the disease, a point I tried to make in my original post. Stagnation is very painful. Dynamism and growth create an interesting environment where life is far more worthwhile.
I could certainly sign on to a guest worker program, as George W Bush appears to be proposing. But eliminating illegals, I think, would create a stagnating country that would be worse than the problems illegals cause.
I hope this has at least been interesting. I look forward to further dialogue.
D
I took the time to answer you because you seem sincere in your posts, and I didn't feel like you were on the thread just to stir trouble. I enjoy a discussion with anyone who is being reasonable, whether or not I agree with them.
I do want to say there is a lot of resentment toward illegals because of the problems the issue of illegal immigration creates, not simply because of their race. Sometimes that resentment is seen as racism, but usually it is sheer frustration that is taken as racism by those who don't understand the whole picture.
There of course are racists on both sides of the issue, I personally have encountered more racism from some of the more recent immigrants that are involved with certain groups, like La Raza than I have ever seen with people who oppose illegal immigration. The groups that support illegals love to promote the idea that we who oppose illegal immigration are all just racist, but it really isn't true.
I met a lady last night that is rabidly opposed to illegal immigration. She was even using racial slur words to describe illegals. I would think she is racist, by hearing her words but she is Hispanic. She is of Spanish and Mexican descent and her family has lived in this area since the early Spanish colonies. She is not really racist, but she is fed up and frustrated. She told me her husband had always worked in agriculture and now it was hard for him to get a job, because of the competition of illegal workers who are willing to work for less money. She is angry because her husband, in his late 40's has to find a new career and rightfully or wrongly she blames the illegals. Of course if she were "white" she would be labeled as a racist. Racism is not always as clear as some think, some of the worst racists I have seen are careful what they say and are not outwardly racist, but treat those of other races terribly. That to me is racism, as much or more so than those who are simply frustrated beyond reason and say things they likely don't mean out of anger. To me a person's actions speak louder than words. I am hesitant to label anyone a racist without knowing them.