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Dash to Baghdad Left Top U.S. Generals Divided
NY Times ^ | March 13 2006 | MICHAEL R. GORDON and BERNARD E. TRAINOR

Posted on 03/12/2006 11:00:01 PM PST by jmc1969

The war was barely a week old when Gen. Tommy Franks threatened to fire the Army's field commander.

From the first days of the invasion, American forces had tangled with fanatical Saddam Fedayeen paramilitary fighters. Gen. Wallace, had told reporters that his soldiers needed to delay their advance on the capital to suppress the Fedayeen.

Soon after, General Franks phoned Gen. McKiernan, to warn that he might relieve General Wallace.

A US Marines intelligence officer warned, that the Fedayeen would continue to mount attacks after the fall of Baghdad since many of the enemy fighters were being bypassed in the race to the capital.

Instead of sending additional troops to impose order after the fall of Baghdad, Rumsfeld and General Franks canceled the deployment of the First Cavalry Division.

General McKiernan was unhappy with the decision, which was made at a time when ground forces were needed to deal with the chaos.

General Franks eventually went along. He later acknowledged that the defense secretary had put the issue on the table. "Rumsfeld did in fact make the decision to off-ramp the First Cavalry Division," General Franks said in an earlier interview.

General McKiernan, the senior United States general in Iraq at the time, was not happy about the decision but did not protest.

"The insurgency surprised us and we had not developed a comprehensive option for dealing with this possibility, one that would have included more military police, civil affairs units, interrogators, and Special Operations forces," said Gen. Keane of the Army, who served as the chief of staff.

"If we had planned for an insurgency, we probably would have deployed the First Cavalry Division and it would have assisted greatly with the occupation. "This was not just an intelligence community failure, but also our failure as senior military leaders."

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
How are you suppose to know what the enemy has planned?

You can't know for certain, although you can make educated guesses. But because you can't know, you are supposed to analyze the enemy's capabilities, and at least consider the possibility that the bad guys might do what they are able to do. Most military disasters in history are a result (at least in part) of disregarding this fundamental rule.

21 posted on 03/12/2006 11:47:18 PM PST by Brandon
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To: AntiGuv

Well, we can always count on the New York Times to win our wars.


22 posted on 03/12/2006 11:48:19 PM PST by Jim Robinson
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
How are you suppose to know what the enemy has planned?

I'm no general but Saddam's huge weapon/explosives dumps throughout the country made me go "Hmmmmmmmm?" If they weren't used in fighting the war, what were they for?

It seems to me anyone who's observed America over the past 50 years, especially in Vietnam, should know we can probably be beaten by fighting a guerilla war of attrition against us and letting our own Far Left/media/intelligentsia bring us to our knees.

23 posted on 03/12/2006 11:48:50 PM PST by Bernard Marx (Fools and fanatics are always certain of themselves, but the wise are full of doubts.)
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To: jmc1969

I noticed the NY Times byline, so I assumed (apparently rightly so from the comments) that there's nothing true or worthwhile in the article.


24 posted on 03/12/2006 11:49:43 PM PST by KamperKen
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To: Jim Robinson

I suspect that this war won't be won until the regime is removed in Tehran, since that's who we're actually fighting now..


25 posted on 03/12/2006 11:55:41 PM PST by AntiGuv
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To: AntiGuv

I suspect you're right. What does the NYT recommend in that case?


26 posted on 03/12/2006 11:59:43 PM PST by Jim Robinson
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To: jmc1969

Our experience with defeating and then pacifying nations should refer to Germany and Japan.

We bombed them killing hundreds of thousands of civilians. Perhaps more. We destroyed their infrastructure.

In Germany we stationed a large occupying force, and scrutinized every single citizen, for continuing Nazi sentiments.

In Iraq we surgically took out only some infrastructure, hoping to save as much as possible to keep the civilians happy.

And we presumed the civilians would like us better than they liked Saddam.

Our plans WERE deficient for the longer term pacification and occupation. We DID miscalculate.

Stated elsewhere, but not in this article was the decision to completely disband the Iraqi military. Perhaps a big mistake.


27 posted on 03/13/2006 12:05:39 AM PST by truth_seeker
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To: Brandon; Ernest_at_the_Beach
Correct. We did do that and insurgency was predicted among many other scenarios.
28 posted on 03/13/2006 12:09:29 AM PST by endthematrix (None dare call it ISLAMOFACISM!)
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To: SoCal Pubbie

Hey, did you get some snow?


29 posted on 03/13/2006 12:11:32 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: Jim Robinson

Lay it on em Jim....this hindsight is ridiculous!


30 posted on 03/13/2006 12:12:46 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: Jim Robinson
What does the NYT recommend in that case?

Preemptive surrender. :)

31 posted on 03/13/2006 12:13:30 AM PST by AntiGuv
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To: AntiGuv
"The Pentagon did not plan for resistance at all. They expected merely to pummel the standing army into oblivion, march into Baghdad and the other cities through a cascade of champagne and rose petals, fire the entire Iraqi administration from top to bottom, issue decrees that the gratefully liberated natives would jump to implement, and start pumping out oil."

Getting into Baghdad as soon as possible was an important strategic goal, both militarily and politically. It seems the 2nd part of the plan was to lure the terrorists to Iraq after the invasion and destroy them there. The terrorists fell for it and received the biggest sucker punch in history.

"The Iraqis didn't have anything planned except for the most typical, routine tactics."

It was always the Baathists plan that if the US invaded, they would fade away and start a Guerrilla type war. The most important tactic that all insurgent groups learned from the Vietnam War was to use the West's media against it. Fortunately, thanks to the internet, cable and satellite broadcasting, etc., there are many more sources of information available to the average citizen then the MSM of yesteryear. Still, the MSM is a powerful influence.

32 posted on 03/13/2006 12:15:02 AM PST by Left2Right ("Democracy isn't perfect, but other governments are so much worse")
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To: Bernard Marx

Right....


33 posted on 03/13/2006 12:15:23 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: AntiGuv

Iraq is really just a battle in a larger War, but the Times doesn't want to talk about that!


34 posted on 03/13/2006 12:17:47 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: truth_seeker

Franks also talked about the mistakes in Afghanistan a couple months ago. The biggest thing he said was we should have put our troops on Pakistan border instead of relying on Pakistani troops. The mistakes in Afganistan in my view were just as large as the mistakes with Iraq. The difference is that there is ten thousand times the amount of explosives in Iraq and Zarqawi has a near limitless supply of money from rich Arabs in the Gulf as well massive supply of potental suicide bombers who just have to walk to Iraq.

Rummy's idea of lighter, faster, cheaper wars work to take down regimes, but they don't work to deal with the after affects of the war and it doesn't work to keep insurgencies from forming. Only large numbers of troops on the ground can keep insurgencies from forming. As we have seen in both Iraq and Afghanistan when the enemy is allowed large areas of unprotected territory they are able to reorganize, plan, and start conducting attacks again.


35 posted on 03/13/2006 12:19:01 AM PST by jmc1969
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
"hindsight is ridiculous"

Pentagon should have heeded predictions.

36 posted on 03/13/2006 12:23:22 AM PST by endthematrix (None dare call it ISLAMOFACISM!)
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To: jmc1969; AntiGuv
But a large per-centage of our causalities have come from IED's hitting our supply convoys, if you have more troops then you have more convoys...and higher causalities.
37 posted on 03/13/2006 12:24:54 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: endthematrix

See #37!


38 posted on 03/13/2006 12:25:41 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
This General was right. We beat them TOO fast. In war you either kill your enemy, destroy his support so he can never fight again, or make the very idea of war with us so terrible they'd never dream of trying it again. We did none of the above. There were reasons for our actions, mostly being we expected to get hit with clouds of chemical weapons. Instead most of Saddam's army just laid their weapons down and ran away, just to come back after we moved on to a different area.

What the hell is taking the Iraqi army so long to get off the ground? We should get these guys going and keep most of our troops in bases, just in case they are needed.
39 posted on 03/13/2006 12:33:26 AM PST by RHINO369
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; jmc1969
I think you can accomplish much to thwart insurgencies through HUMINT. One problem IMO is that the US is lacking in Arab culture.

Ernest, I didn't mean to bash, but their was pre-war intel that dealt with the subject of insurgency...that said many other things were predicted.

If spacemen were predicted to land and fight in Iraq, I'd want the US to ready for it. Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but nothing wrong with preparedness.
40 posted on 03/13/2006 12:33:35 AM PST by endthematrix (None dare call it ISLAMOFACISM!)
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