Bye-bye baby (Childfree and Loving It)

Telegraph ^ | February 26, 2006 | Julia Llewellyn Smith

[Atlas Sneezed]

People who want kids and have kids just don't understand those of us who don't want kids. That's really what it boils down to. And people therefore try to find an easy explanation for those who don't want kids: selfishness, ungodliness, immaturity, liberalness, etc.

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The ironic thing is that if these advocates really thought that childrearing was such a unbridled joy, theywould be selling it as such, instead of trying to convince us that we are godlessly selfish.

[Atlas Sneezed]

Truth is, most people don't really know about life and what is important if they've not had children.

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Wow! What arrogant bigotry!

Indeed, there are some idiots who think that one's brain does not start working until there is a little human running around to whom one has contributed genetic material. Of course, one can come up with countless examples of people who have achieved this reproductive milestone without reaching any meaningful threshold of mental activity.

Face it, people who resent those who choose not to have children are probably at least subconsciously unhappy with their choice. That's too bad.

[Atlas Sneezed]

Who cares for the childless widow when all her friends are dead and there is no one left alive in the world who even knows her?

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The caregivers she hires with all the money she saved by not having children, silly!

And not to shatter your preconceived notions, but people can make friends during their life, and these friends can include younger people who can be reliably expected to outlive one. And it is probably easier to make such friends if you're not annoying the hell out of them by constantly talking about diapers, minivans, and preschool admissions.

[Atlas Sneezed]

I bet they don't turn down OUR kids when OUR kids are the ones wiping up their butts in the nursing homes because they don't have anyone left in the world to take care of them.

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If your kids are qualified to do nothing but be butt-wipers, then they should be grateful to have the employment, paid for those who were able to save enough money for the service.

[countess]

Take the same poll of Dr. Laura listeners and see what you get...

I've yet to hear a Dr. Laura caller that sounded intelligent and mature enough to be raising children.

[muir_redwoods]

"So people who choose a different alternative than you are "immature"? Hmmm."

It isn't the choice, it's the reasons.

[Atlas Sneezed]

"So people who choose a different alternative than you are "immature"? Hmmm."

It isn't the choice, it's the reasons.

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So choosing not to have children because both would be more fulfilled in a happy marriage is OK with you, or is that selfish?

How about choosing to have children because that would make married life more fulfilling? Is that selfish, too?

What reasons are acceptable to you? Just curious.

Are Bob and Liddy Dole selfish?

[muir_redwoods]

If one can have children, and one is mature enough for the responsibility, one should. It's as simple as that. I can explain it to you but I cannot understand it for you.

[chinche]

Are Bob and Liddy Dole selfish?

Yes, if Elton John and David Furnish are not selfish, I suppose so."

[TheClintons-STILLAnti-American]

"I am among those who did it quite traditional. I am married to the nicest and prettiest girl you can think of and our three wild little boys are the proof that it was worth doing it. "

Kudos to you!

[TheClintons-STILLAnti-American]

"Go back and read my comment. You'll find that you and I are in complete agreement."

LOL. I thought the same thing when I read Ma's post.

--Interesting screen name (MaDuce) for someone who isn't a "ma", as it would give me the impression that motherhood is THE role this person wants to be identified with.

Goes to show, if jumping to conclusions counted as exercise most of us would be in great shape.

[TheClintons-STILLAnti-American]

"To change Europe into a "Eurabia" it would be necessary that Islam is starting a intellectual push to find new members among the native populace. This will not work: Native Europeans are either catholic, protestant or are absolutely not interested in religion. Islam has simply no chance to inspire native Europeans (except of some very few idiots). "

I've seen you make this point on this forum in the past, and while I certainly respect your perspective, as you are living it, and am encouraged by it--not to mention greatly appreciate you sharing it here on FR--I hope that you are taking into account Muslims creating growing enclaves --both in number and size--that allow them to use elections and courts to get their way, and with increasing numbers through immigration and higher birth rates gradually overwhelm native populations'regardless of whether they accept their ideology, until they reach a point they can make it the norm rather than the exception.

[TheClintons-STILLAnti-American]

"Does Europe want to survive? Most of the Europeans I know seem to almost have a death-wish..."

The same could be said about many Americans.

The self-loathing that characterizes the BBC's coverage of their own nation is found on CNN--particularly CNN International--and the rest of the MSM for the U.S.

Many Americans are apparently ashamed of our being Numero Uno for so long, and feel we should be apologetic about it and need to be brought down to make them feel better.

[Antoninus]

I've yet to hear a Dr. Laura caller that sounded intelligent and mature enough to be raising children.

Uh, the people with problems are the ones that call her, dear.

[Fruitbat]

The self-absorption of the women interviewed in this piece is truly breathtaking. I'm glad that they have decided not to reproduce.

My initial thoughts as well. Can you imagine what kind of moms they'd be! Eeeech!

[hinckley buzzard]

I don't have preconceived notions. All I know is what I see and hear every week as I work with the aged in nursing homes in several nearby locations, and in my office with those still independent. The idea that eighty-odd year old women are likely to have many friends who are much younger than they, is a fanciful one. It happens, but so does winning the lottery and finding true love amid the ruins.. I wouldn't want to bet on either of them.

[beaversmom]

Thanks for your thoughts. You are over there so we appreciate your perspective. Have you heard about and read Mark Steyn? He is from Europe, is a Canadian citizen, but now lives in the U.S. He writes on a variety of worldwide subjects and is very knowledgeable. This is one of his latest articles about
Muslims in Europe. What do you think about what he is saying?

[wgflyer]

From the German standpoint, Turks are the issue and Turks have typically been less extreme in their Islam, though this may be changing. From the France perspective, muslims tend to be N. African. France was the home of Khomeini prior to the Iranian revolution in 1979. I enjoyed the roving markets that visited villages there in Provence, each on a different day, but I noted that many of the stalls were run by people speaking arabic. And many of the market goers also spoke arabic. France has a decidedly worse muslim problem than does Germany. Their muslims tend to be more extreme, more violent and less restrained by the French. I think you underestimate the muslim problem in Eurabia.

[Atlantic Bridge]

Thank you for the ping. Steyn is always brilliant. Anyway his conclusions are only half true if we talk about Germany. The reason for this is that he predicts that all immigration into my country is islamic. This is definitly wrong. In the meantime only a very limited number of Turks or other muslims is flowing into Germany. Most of them through marriages.

Since the beginning 80ties we became growing immigration rates from eastern Europe. Former Russians, Ukrainians and Poles (so called "Aussiedler" - people with German roots whose ancestors came from Germany) are mixing into our population. A interesting graphic:

http://www.isoplan.de/aid/2005-3/images/s19_grafik1.gif


Somehow a subtle irony of history: Today even more jews immigrate to Germany than to Israel.

Although it is true that the Turks have a bigger offspring than the average German, you should not forget that over the time the young Turks adopt the western style of living. It is very unlikely that they start a broad jihad against other Germans.

Furthermore political power is a question of education and know-how. All those immigrants seem to be trapped in the lower class of the society. Maybe they can start some riots, but they will never be able to topple our system. BTW - most of them do not want to do this anyway, since they would destroy their own livelihood in this case.

Espechially in the UK things are more dangerous due to the numberous moslems from Pakistan. There is a simular situation in France with their north Africans. These guys are gung ho to spread their religion with all means. But - until now those idiots weren't even able to do some effective terrorism in Europe. If you have been in the millitary like me (being a civil engineer and architekt with the permission to dynamite I know what I am talking about ;-))you probably will know that it is extremely easy to cause really a lot of trouble in a civil society as long as you act intelligent and ruthless. Until now there was only one really massive blow to western civilisation: 9/11. This is a good indicator to their collective incompetence. The background for the intellectual failure of terrorists is also clear to me: Somebody who believes in their crazy interpretation of the Koran and into their crazy form of Islam anyway must be a complete moron.

Of course we have to be careful and we have to steer against dangerous developments. Europe is at a point of inflection. We have to restore our society and our values. No doubt about that. If America will stand on our side like a old friend in troubled times, it will be for sure helpful, but the driving force for such intellectual change must come from ourselves. I am quite optimistic about that. Things are moving and we will invent ourselves completely new within the next few years and something very different will be the result. Merkel and Sarkozy are the first skylight after long years of darkness under Mitterrand, Kohl, Chirac and Schroeder. We have a new and spiritually powerful pope and the future does not look that bad. Inside a settled Christian society such heresy like Islam will be just a ridicolous nuisance.

BTW - Believe it or not - the German interior secret service (co called "Verfassungsschutz") is quite effective in dealing with islamist scum. There is no reason for panic. Things are under control and they will stay under control.

My best regards to America!

Andreas

[Atlantic Bridge]

Take a look to my #199