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Bye-bye baby (Childfree and Loving It)
Telegraph ^ | February 26, 2006 | Julia Llewellyn Smith

Posted on 02/28/2006 1:23:15 AM PST by beaversmom

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To: Antoninus

I didn't have children, so there was a lot of extra money available for investing. I definitely won't be a charity case. ;)


121 posted on 02/28/2006 9:07:04 AM PST by linda_22003
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To: SuziQ
That's where it is up to us, the conservative parents, to raise kids who are aware of our country's history, who CAN read, write, and do some math, so that they can take on positions of responsbility in this country when they're adults.

Exactly my thought. And exactly why we will homeschool our children when we have them. To say you won't have kids because you don't want to bring them into such a liberal world - pure nonsense. In that case, you are only perpetuating the problem. When liberals reproduce more and conservatives reproduce less, there end up being more liberals and fewer conservatives. Luckily, I think the "childfree" movement is generally more common among liberals.

122 posted on 02/28/2006 9:08:16 AM PST by Kaylee Frye
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To: Antoninus

"I have a major financial incentive to send my kids to public school. I'd never do it in a hundred years. Care to guess why?"

Because you couldn't afford a house in a good district, would be my guess.


123 posted on 02/28/2006 9:08:37 AM PST by linda_22003
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To: beaversmom
A high percentage of us now think there's no God

Oh really? I'd love to see her research supporting this pronouncement.

124 posted on 02/28/2006 9:09:40 AM PST by Not A Snowbird (Official RKBA Landscaper and Arborist, Duchess of Green Leafy Things)
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To: Beelzebubba
"Folks, if child rearing is so great, people will naturally choose it. Four out of five generally do.

But what is annoying is that the pro-child folks can't be content with their choice. They seem prone to call those who opt not: "selfish", when they are similarly making their own choice of what they want most for themselves for their lives."

Good point. Also the folks who have kids who like to criticize those who don't you could say they prove the "misery loves company" axiom. ;o)
125 posted on 02/28/2006 9:14:54 AM PST by MaDeuce (Do it to them, before they do it to you!)
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To: Troublemaker
Why did they have profound regrets?


Typically, unappreciative kids.

I should clarify that they found benefits as well, but the regrets were powerful enough to overcome the societal expectation that parents are to have no regrets.
126 posted on 02/28/2006 9:24:41 AM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Your FRiendly FReeper Patent Attorney)
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To: Paulus

There is a slight difference in a democratic take over versus the take over by a criminal gang. But, I guess you already know that...


127 posted on 02/28/2006 9:24:52 AM PST by TheDon (The Democratic Party is the party of TREASON!)
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To: linda_22003
Because you couldn't afford a house in a good district, would be my guess.

Wrong. We lived in one of the best public school districts in south Jersey. However, they teach the secular humanist religion and promote buggery. We'll be homeschooling.
128 posted on 02/28/2006 9:26:30 AM PST by Antoninus (The only reason you're alive today is because your parents were pro-life.)
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To: linda_22003
You're repeating exactly what I said in order to disagree with me? How odd.

No, what's odd is citing a Dear Abby readers' poll as support for your position. The fact that you also questioned the validity of the poll in the same post just makes the fact that you cited it even more confusing.
129 posted on 02/28/2006 9:28:17 AM PST by Antoninus (The only reason you're alive today is because your parents were pro-life.)
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To: MaDuce

"A big section of society is appalled at the notion that there are ladies who don't want to have a baby, and quite a lot of people aren't judgemental but still just can't get it."

I think that's why when these types of articles are posted, we see comments about how the childfree are selfish, ungodly, immature, liberal, etc.

People who want kids and have kids just don't understand those of us who don't want kids. That's really what it boils down to. And people therefore try to find an easy explanation for those who don't want kids: selfishness, ungodliness, immaturity, liberalness, etc.

Even if people don't understand others not wanting kids, at least they could be a little more accepting of people who are different.


130 posted on 02/28/2006 9:35:20 AM PST by Abigail Adams
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To: linda_22003
I didn't have children, so there was a lot of extra money available for investing. I definitely won't be a charity case. ;)

There were a lot of well-to-do pensioneers in Weimar German who were in the same boat as you--before hyperflation hit. Never say never.
131 posted on 02/28/2006 9:39:31 AM PST by Antoninus (The only reason you're alive today is because your parents were pro-life.)
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To: Abigail Adams
People who want kids and have kids just don't understand those of us who don't want kids.

Not quite. In many cases, those of us who want kids now, used to be in the "don't want kids" category at some time in the past.

It's not all mean-spiritedness, hypocrisy, judgmentalism, or whatever other negative epithets have been tacked onto us. In many cases, we are simply trying to pass on a few words to the wise.
132 posted on 02/28/2006 9:46:18 AM PST by Antoninus (The only reason you're alive today is because your parents were pro-life.)
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To: Antoninus
"You can thank us later when you're old and decrepit and our kids are: mowing your lawn, shoveling your walkway, delivering your mail, helping you cross the street, protecting you from criminals, and taking care of you in a nursing home."

Antoninus ... would it make you feel better if I had some kids then (knowing my temper and dislike of kids), and beat them when they give me lip or don't do what I tell them to do ... as I said in my original post for my personal situation ... at least I KNOW I WOULD BE A BAD PARRENT and am at least smart enough to realize this!

But to the point ... people make their choices based on person in-site and in this situation should not be lambasted for it ... otherwise you'll have a portion of society that abuses their unwanted kids and will end up in prison ... one place I don't want to end up cause of some wise-ass unsuspecting snot nosed kid's back talk.

And I tell ya, I know two couples kids who want nothing to do with their parents (ungratefully scum). They can't wait to dump them off in some HOME when they are old and take the $$$ and house ... I hear them jokingly talk about it with a nervous laugh.
133 posted on 02/28/2006 9:48:18 AM PST by MaDeuce (Do it to them, before they do it to you!)
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To: MaDuce
So get off your high horses and apply the "freedom and liberty" view point we all here at FR like to express about other things to people who don't want kids.

Sounds like someone struck an exposed nerve of yours. Truth is, most people don't really know about life and what is important if they've not had children. Most simply don't "get it" until they do. You may not be one of those, but most are. Make of this what you will and no lectures please.

134 posted on 02/28/2006 9:48:22 AM PST by subterfuge ("We're going to take things from you for the greater good..."---Hillary Rod-Ham Clinton)
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To: Antoninus
Germany is not nearly as bad off as some other places in Europe--like France, the Netherlands and Sweden, for example. What do you make of statistics like the birthrate in cities like Amsterdam and Rotterdam, where nearly as many Muslim children are being born right now as native Dutch? Is that not troubling?

Of course it is troubling. The thing is, that Europe is a continent of immigration if it wants to survive. The declining birth rates are a fact and nobody can change those realities.

In the past many faults were made in the selection of those who are allowed to come to Europe. Espechially the former colonial nations opened their boarders to the people of their former colonies without checking them on their suitability. This was a major fault.

The more the muslims will riot the more the pressure is rising to deal hard with the problem. Therefore the recent torching of cars wasn't that bad. It woke up some lazy politicians to do something on it if they want to get elected in the future. There are some very easy things that can help:

1. Throw the fanatic hate mullahs out.

2. More capitalism will help Europe to give those rioting kids the jobs they need to be satisfied with themselves. People who work do not waste their time in torching cars.

3. Help the muslims to reform islam into something we all can live with. They need somehow a sort of Martin Luther to clean up with all this BS.

4. Help Christianity and Catholizism to its suitable position the the European society again. Therefore it will be also nessecary to reform some basic things without falling into the sort of relativism Benedict rightly criticized.

I have great faith in our people to deal with new conditions and to open the path to a good future. There are several reasons why I stay optimistic:

1. It is quite simple - Christanity is a much more interesting religion than Islam. Everyone who reads Bible in comparison to Koran and the Hadiths will find out that Muhammad was a bad plagiarist. He falsified Bible into a hazy shade he called Koran. This is something that has to be understood to take the recent trys of proselytization in Europe even-tempered and cool. It just doesn't work to change christian Europeans or even atheist Europeans into Muslims. Nobody execpt of some unsatisfied Idiots is interested into their BS.

2. Europe is in a major change in the moment. Among the important countries (France, Germany) it seems that the socialist gouvernments are replaced by something more capitalistic. Since we still have one of the biggest industrial frames within the whole world combined with a well educated workforce there is good chance for a major upturn.

3. In the long run our religion will find a suitable place again. There is much more grassroot spirituality among Europeans people from America could ever think of. In my comunity i.E. you will find a stable Christian basement. West (espechially south) Germany and rural France is deeply Christian soil. Of course there are areas were religion nearly vansihed (east Germany, Czech Republic, some parts of the big towns), but they are not representative for Europe.

Greetings from Lake Constance :-)

135 posted on 02/28/2006 9:55:41 AM PST by Atlantic Bridge (O tempora! O mores!)
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To: MaDuce
Antoninus ... would it make you feel better if I had some kids then (knowing my temper and dislike of kids), and beat them when they give me lip or don't do what I tell them to do ... as I said in my original post for my personal situation ... at least I KNOW I WOULD BE A BAD PARRENT and am at least smart enough to realize this!

No, I'm telling you to make yourself into the kind of person that would be a good parent. What you said above smacks of the kind of "I am who I am" nonsense that mystifies me. You can change your behavior, your attitude, your habits. You have the power to suppress your evil tendencies and behave in a manner that is in accord with traditional notions of virtue, charity, honor, and temperence. It's not easy, it's not even common in our society, but it can be done.

When people say, "I can't be a good parent" what I hear is "I'm too lazy to put the time in to make myself a good parent."

As my wife's grandmother used to say, "Can't means won't."
136 posted on 02/28/2006 9:58:52 AM PST by Antoninus (The only reason you're alive today is because your parents were pro-life.)
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To: beaversmom

I'm so glad we have "transcended our biology". Puke.


137 posted on 02/28/2006 10:02:02 AM PST by Junior_G
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To: Antoninus

Okay, then, "won't". However, why you get to make decisions about whether other people should or should not have children is amazingly intrusive. If they don't want to, your answer is to change into someone who wants to.

What other areas of strictly personal behavior would you like people to adopt so they square with what YOU believe?


138 posted on 02/28/2006 10:09:09 AM PST by linda_22003
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To: MaDuce

People are free to do silly things.

That doesn't mean that we can't point out that they're being silly.

It's a free country. :P


139 posted on 02/28/2006 10:09:23 AM PST by Constantine XIII
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To: Antoninus
No, I'm telling you to make yourself into the kind of person that would be a good parent.

Not everything that makes someone a bad parent can be willed away. Someone with severe bipolar disorder or schizophrenia cannot magically cure themselves, for instance.

Some people are just not called to be parents, period. I don't see why they should become parents anyway, just to validate your choice.

As for the idea that if you are childless, no one will take care of you when you are old, I think that the way you treat people during your life is far more important. My grandmother's brother was childless his entire life- he was extremely overweight until old age and never married. But he was a pleasant man who remained close to his sister, brother and their families. When he suffered a debilitating stroke a year before he died, he had to live in a nursing home. His family and friends visited everyday, talking to him, washing him, and making sure the nurses took care of him. The nurses would comment that he was the most visited patient that they ever had. Many other patients, most of whom had children, never had visitors. A few days before he suffered a second, fatal stroke, my whole family threw a birthday party for him, a celebration of what he meant to all of us. My great uncle was a good person in life, and he was rewarded by the love and care of others. Many parents, who gave birth but were unloving or even cruel to their children, will die alone and unloved.

140 posted on 02/28/2006 10:21:37 AM PST by LWalk18
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