"But be honest -- if it turned out that the truth did happen to result in more liberal votes than conservative ones, would you find that a good reason to suppress it, or fail to stand up for it in the face of falsehoods? Really? Because if so, wouldn't that make us as bad as the worst of the liberals and the Islamists? Don't they care more about political power than about truth? Don't they care more about expediency than about being right?
I'm not willing to sacrifice reality, or honesty, or being correct, for the sake of increased political muscle. I hope you aren't either."
This is a really curious end to your post. The facts are rather plain: Islamists don't believe for a second in allowing competing ideas into the minds of kids. No where do you see this message from Christians. However, liberals are a lot like this.
Evolution is not 'the truth' by the way. I like your adherence to 'the truth', but unless I miss my mark, there is no way you actually believe an absolute standard by which to say 'truth exists' even exists. Correct?
As for reality, my reality is clear: I obtained a degree in Science, based on numerical flow models using finite difference methods. I understand the power of math. I also fully understand how to abuse boundary conditions such that the results are publishable.
By what standard do I refrain from that abuse, if I know I won't get caught? Another way to ask this is plain: how does one teach 'honor'?? I'd sincerely, SINCERELY be willing to devour links you may have at the ready on that topic.
I find it very interesting you equate the expediency of the Islamists and Liberals with what the Creationist and I.D. types are trying to do. It is over the top, for I.D. types, especaially are not trying to ban evolution.
By the way, that's a golf term, over the top. It normally results in a slice.
And if evolution is actually TRUE, that what we see is 'all that there is', then by definition, I would be irrational to see my self as any thing but an entity geared to survive and pass my genes on. If I really thought it was true, I would act on it.
In fact, for years, I did. Then I discovered Gravity. Hard to quantify this thing I discovered. Certainly I have trouble coming up w/ a good math equation to describe it. 1+1=3 is my best stab at it.
"I appreciate the suggestion, but really, I doubt I'd find great philosophical revelations in knocking a ball around with a stick. "
You are correct if you are merely knocking it around. But, knocking a ball into a hole in as few strokes as possible? That experience is not for the faint of heart, nor weak of mind.
For those who actually persevere? I testify your doubt is badly informed by your lack of experience. Mr. I., you should still be in good enough health despite 30 years in your field, to walk 18 holes at a par 3 golf course. To hit the ball, as many times as it takes until you hear that sound, 18 times, of the ball thunking into the cup.
I promise the first round won't provide revelations. But by the 10th round or so, the revelations will begin to manifest themselves, and you'll see a Plato in you that you never knew was there...
It's all a question of this: what is imagination made of? Be honest Mr. I, and answer that question.
["But be honest -- if it turned out that the truth did happen to result in more liberal votes than conservative ones, would you find that a good reason to suppress it, or fail to stand up for it in the face of falsehoods? Really? Because if so, wouldn't that make us as bad as the worst of the liberals and the Islamists? Don't they care more about political power than about truth? Don't they care more about expediency than about being right? I'm not willing to sacrifice reality, or honesty, or being correct, for the sake of increased political muscle. I hope you aren't either."] This is a really curious end to your post. The facts are rather plain: Islamists don't believe for a second in allowing competing ideas into the minds of kids. No where do you see this message from Christians.
Oh?
Evolution is not 'the truth' by the way.
And you know this how?
I like your adherence to 'the truth', but unless I miss my mark, there is no way you actually believe an absolute standard by which to say 'truth exists' even exists. Correct?
Incorrect.
As for reality, my reality is clear: I obtained a degree in Science, based on numerical flow models using finite difference methods. I understand the power of math. I also fully understand how to abuse boundary conditions such that the results are publishable. By what standard do I refrain from that abuse, if I know I won't get caught?
You can never know you won't get caught.
Another way to ask this is plain: how does one teach 'honor'??
The old fashioned way -- by teaching the consequences of the alternative.
I'd sincerely, SINCERELY be willing to devour links you may have at the ready on that topic.
It hardly seems the sort of thing that requires extensive documentation.
I find it very interesting you equate the expediency of the Islamists and Liberals with what the Creationist and I.D. types are trying to do.
Actually, that's not what I said. I was not equating them. *You* were the one who was asking whether teaching the evidence was "helpful" to conservative voting rates or not. Thus my question to *you* about whether that was really your primary concern -- if like a liberal or an Islamist, you would abandon knowledge, promote ignorance of it, if that would "help your cause".
It is over the top, for I.D. types, especaially are not trying to ban evolution.
Not all of them perhaps, but you're naive if you think that there aren't a significant number who would do so if they could, and who work to achieve the same result by dishonrable means other than outright bans.
And if evolution is actually TRUE, that what we see is 'all that there is', then by definition,
Yet again, I find myself having to point out the most elementary fact: Evolution does *not* rule out the existence of god/gods/supernatural/etc., nor require their non-existence in any way.
I would be irrational to see my self as any thing but an entity geared to survive and pass my genes on. If I really thought it was true, I would act on it.
Then you really don't understand it.
In fact, for years, I did. Then I discovered Gravity. Hard to quantify this thing I discovered. Certainly I have trouble coming up w/ a good math equation to describe it. 1+1=3 is my best stab at it.
Um.. Ooookay...
["I appreciate the suggestion, but really, I doubt I'd find great philosophical revelations in knocking a ball around with a stick. "]
You are correct if you are merely knocking it around. But, knocking a ball into a hole in as few strokes as possible? That experience is not for the faint of heart, nor weak of mind.
I have other ways to challenge myself.
It's all a question of this: what is imagination made of? Be honest Mr. I, and answer that question.
The exploration of possibilities.