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Intelligent design loses vote [Ohio]
AP via Akron Beacon-Journal ^ | 2/24/2006 | Carrie Spencer Ghose

Posted on 02/15/2006 12:53:18 AM PST by jennyp

The Ohio school board voted Tuesday to eliminate a passage in the state's science standards that critics said opened the door to the teaching of intelligent design.

The Ohio Board of Education decided 11-4 to delete material encouraging students to seek evidence for and against evolution.

The 2002 science standards say students should be able to ``describe how scientists continue to investigate and critically analyze aspects of evolutionary theory.'' It includes a disclaimer that the standards do not require the teaching of intelligent design.

The vote is the latest setback for the intelligent design movement, which holds that life is so complex, it must have been created by a higher authority.

In December, a federal judge barred the school system in Dover, Pa., from teaching intelligent design alongside evolution in high school biology classes. The judge said that intelligent design is religion masquerading as science and that teaching it alongside evolution violates the separation of church and state.

On Tuesday, the Ohio Board of Education directed a committee to study whether a replacement lesson is needed for the deleted material.

The vote was a reversal of a 9-8 decision a month ago to keep the lesson plan. But three board members who voted in January to keep the plan were absent Tuesday. Supporters of the plan pledged to force a new vote to return the material soon.

``We'll do this forever, I guess,'' said board member Michael Cochran, a Columbus lawyer and supporter of the lesson plan.

Board member Martha Wise, who pushed to eliminate the material, said the board took the correct action to avoid problems, including a possible lawsuit.

``It is deeply unfair to the children of this state to mislead them about science,'' said Wise, an elected board member representing northern Ohio.

In approving Wise's motion, the board rejected a competing plan to request a legal opinion from the attorney general on the constitutionality of the science standards.

The state's science lesson plan, approved in 2004, is optional for schools to use in teaching the state's science standards, which are the basis for Ohio's graduation test. Although schools are not required to teach the standards, districts that do not follow the standards put students at risk of not passing that part of the Ohio graduation test.

The Pennsylvania court decision against teaching intelligent design does not apply in Ohio, but critics of state standards say it invites a similar challenge.

Wise said other events since the ruling made removing the standards even more important. Earlier this month, for example, Gov. Bob Taft recommended a legal review of the standards.

In addition, members of a committee that advised state education officials on Ohio's science curriculum said the standards improperly single out the theory of evolution and could lead to the teaching of religion.

Board member Deborah Owens Fink, who voted against eliminating the lesson plan, said it is unfair to deny students the chance to use logic to question a scientific theory. She said scientists who oppose the material are worried that their views won't be supported.

``We respect diversity of opinion in every other arena,'' said Owens Fink, an elected board member from Akron.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: crevolist; schoolboard; scienceeducation; troll; whocares
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To: gomaaa
Oh, but his point trying to use this to SOMEHOW attack evolution is complete poppy-cock of course.

The only poppy-cock here is your complete mischaracterzation of my position. This whole thing started because some people tried to make completely lame attempts at attacking ID, by claiming that because people get all types of sickness, that somehow 'proved' that there was not an 'intelligent designer', or it was sleeping on the job.

It was amazing to see so many supposedly educated people suddenly go stupid, act like liberals and claim that there is no personal responsibilty for diet, exercise, emotional stress, environmental factors, etc. and that these factors have no bearing on a person's health.

281 posted on 02/15/2006 3:10:56 PM PST by AmericaUnited
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To: gomaaa
They have done studies showing that PBDE's can cause health problems in animal studies.

In massive quantities. There is no reason to expect a linear response for most health effects, except perhaps for cancer, and there is only very limited evidence of carcinogenicity.

In any case, my original statement was that synthetic chemicals are not a significant extra burden of carcinogenicity beyond natural carcinogens.

The fear over PBDE's is based on guesswork, but IT'S AN EDUCATED GUESS. They didn't pull this out of the air just to torture the chemical industry.

I actually think that quite a bit of this stuff does have an ideological motivation. Greenpeace for a while was trying to ban all chlorine, and brominated compounds are of course very closely related.

282 posted on 02/15/2006 3:12:21 PM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: AmericaUnited
Your claim was that synthetic chemicals were not getting into the food supplies.

You just can't help yourself, can you? Have you ever put more than three sentences in a row without one enormous fib?

283 posted on 02/15/2006 3:13:58 PM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: jennyp

Hey yo Way to Go Ohio!


284 posted on 02/15/2006 3:14:44 PM PST by Central Scrutiniser (Women hold grudges, guys hold keggers.)
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To: atlaw
So by not requiring his disciples to wash their hands, Jesus was being imprudent and unwise?

No, you're missing the whole point. It was that it was more important for them to be clean on the inside than some superficial outside cleanliness.

And in fact, eating pork and scallops may be divinely lawful, but it is nevertheless imprudent and unwise?

Hey, I like shellfish but even today with modern refrigeration, you still have to be very careful. Imagine the first 6000 years how tough it would be to keep shellfish from going bad... in the desert? What's hard to understand about that? Until modern times, pigs would eat all type of rotten crap and it would not be easy to keep the germs/disease from the meat that was being consumed. What's hard to understand about that?

285 posted on 02/15/2006 3:22:27 PM PST by AmericaUnited
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To: Right Wing Professor
The idea that somehow there is a large extra dietary carcinogen burden from synthetic chemicals is completely unproven

Have you ever put more than two claims out without then trying to backpedal on at least one of them?

286 posted on 02/15/2006 3:39:25 PM PST by AmericaUnited
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To: atlaw
(thereby reducing an omnipotent and perfect God to a middlebrow engineer tossing off just enough barely adequate work to get Him through to the weekend).

Danger Will Robinson! Some things shouild not be speculated.

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. "

287 posted on 02/15/2006 3:42:49 PM PST by Oztrich Boy (The Wedge Document ... offers a message of hope for Muslims - Mustafa Akyol)
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To: AmericaUnited

Backpedalling, by your definition, is denying your deliberately deceitful misconstructions of what I wrote?


288 posted on 02/15/2006 3:42:56 PM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: peyton randolph
As mentioned previously, to insist ID is taught in a science class as an alternative to evolution is like demanding that Pig Latin be taught as an alternative in a Spanish course. ( peyton randolph)

''\

Did you read what I wrote? I did NOT argue for the teaching of ID!!! Personally, I am a supporter of evolution.

The difference between you and me is that I would NEVER force evolution or ID on another parent's child and this is exactly what government schools do.

The solution is to begin the process of completely privatizing universal K-12 education. If there were complete separation of SCHOOL and state, all this acrimony would dissipate like dew on morning grass.
289 posted on 02/15/2006 3:57:55 PM PST by wintertime
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To: Right Wing Professor

In massive quantities. There is no reason to expect a linear response for most health effects, except perhaps for cancer, and there is only very limited evidence of carcinogenicity.

In any case, my original statement was that synthetic chemicals are not a significant extra burden of carcinogenicity beyond natural carcinogens.



The first point I'll have to concede based on pure ignorance. (I have only a Google-based education on the matter!)

I unfortunately don't know enough to really argue the second point with you either, but I would love some information on the topic if you have it. It is entirely possible that new carcinogens added to our enviornment create no more a measurable risk of cancer than already existed from natural sources. However, the converse is also possible. Such things as cancer risks are notoriously hard to measure.

And while a political axe to grind instantly makes information from a
particular source suspect, that doesn't make it automatically wrong either! This goes for left AND right.



290 posted on 02/15/2006 3:58:49 PM PST by gomaaa
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To: Rudder
The issue of forced attendance at government schools affects all topics and, thus, does not distinguish ID from others. The issue of ID not being taught in science class is about excluding a concept fraudulently posing as science. Otherwise, ID can be discussed and even taught in the proper forum such as philosophy or comparative religion courses. Rudder
777777777777777777777777

Rudder,

Teaching ID as philosophy is your PERSONAL educational worldview, and this worldview has political, cultural, and moral/ethical/values ( ie. religious) consequences for all the children in the government school.

Essentially you are advocating the threat of sheriff's auction of another citizen's home or business to pay for the imposition of your educational worldview ( with its religious consequences for OTHER parents' children).This is OK with you? Sorry but I see this as crushing the freedom of conscience of other citizens.

Also...you are advocating the threat of armed police, court, and social worker action on parents and children who do not willing subject themselves to your agenda. Sorry, but this is highly offensive to my sensibilities.

The solution of course is complete separation of SCHOOL and state. We must begin the process of completely privatizing universal K-12 education.

By the way,,,,I am a supporter of evolution and taught this to my homeschoolers in a limited manner.
291 posted on 02/15/2006 4:09:59 PM PST by wintertime
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To: js1138
The point is not what can be legally said, but what should be taught in science class. If creationists want their beliefs subjected to the kind of scrutiny employed by science, then bring it on.



I agree so long as it is in private settings.

The solution to the the Religious Wars ( both evolutionists and IDers and hundreds of other issues) is to eliminate government involvement in education.

What's needed here is complete separation of SCHOOL and state.
292 posted on 02/15/2006 4:14:19 PM PST by wintertime
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To: wintertime
Teaching ID as philosophy is your PERSONAL educational worldview

No it isn't. I don't care one way or the other if it is taught...I merely said it can be taught in some class other than science. Implied, was that someone wanted it to be taught.

293 posted on 02/15/2006 4:17:16 PM PST by Rudder
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To: peyton randolph; NapkinUser

Do you know, I've been following these threads for a while now off and on, and I had embarassingly never known what FSM was until today. It's pretty brilliant, though, for sure. Especially the hate mail on the site, that was really funny to read.


294 posted on 02/15/2006 4:18:14 PM PST by munchtipq
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To: wintertime
The difference between you and me is that I would NEVER force evolution or ID on another parent's child and this is exactly what government schools do.

In the right class, I don't see why either can't be taught...evolution in science class...and ID in either a religion or philosophy class.

Where we fundamentally disagree is on the issue of relativism. To borrow from Ayn Rand, "A is A." No matter how hard you might wish it was B, C, or D squared, it is still going to be A.

The same can be said about the scientific theory of evolution. You call it "forcing" it upon a child. I call it an education. In fact, a school that refused to teach evolution, the laws of gravity, the earth is round and revolves around the sun, etc., would be doing a disservice.

295 posted on 02/15/2006 4:32:59 PM PST by peyton randolph (As long is it does me no harm, I don't care if one worships Elmer Fudd.)
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To: Dimensio
You also paid for Christians in public schools with your tax dollars, as did the parents of atheist children who went to private schools. ( Dimensio)




Dimensio,

I believe that you are being deliberately dense.

Will you admit that there are many citizens who find the educational curriculum and policies ( content and consequences) of government schools to be political, culturally, and religiously odious?

Government schools are an assault on freedom of conscience! They are an abomination.
296 posted on 02/15/2006 4:35:09 PM PST by wintertime
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To: munchtipq
Especially the hate mail on the site, that was really funny to read.

If you liked the FSM hate mail, you'll love the hate mail at the Landover Baptist Church website*...primarily from people who haven't figured out that it is a parody site rather than a real church. I don't care for the partisan politics on the site but find the rest of it funny.

*Since some of the FR Moderators do not appreciate the humor in any way, shape, or form, I've been admonished not to link or publish stuff from the website. You'll have to Google search to find it.

297 posted on 02/15/2006 4:39:54 PM PST by peyton randolph (As long is it does me no harm, I don't care if one worships Elmer Fudd.)
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To: Coyoteman
It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics.
Robert A. Heinlein, Postscript to Revolt in 2100, 1953


8

Could anything truer be said about government schools?

Is it any wonder that there are the continual religious and anti-religious wars raging over government school curriculum and policies? Both groups KNOW that government schools can not be neutral in content or curriculum. That what is taught in government schools will have profound political, cultural, and morals, ethics and values ( ie. religious) consequences.

Who ever grabs control of the government school wins the hearts and minds of the next generation of voters, teachers, professors, judges, legislators, journalists, film producers, directors, lyric writers, ministers, doctors, ,,,and community leaders and shapers of every kind.

No wonder the war is so bitter.

Solution: Complete separation of SCHOOL and state.
298 posted on 02/15/2006 4:45:56 PM PST by wintertime
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Lurking ...

299 posted on 02/15/2006 4:48:14 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, common scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: PatrickHenry

300?


300 posted on 02/15/2006 4:50:38 PM PST by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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