Unless of course they have "probable cause", which can be anything they choose.
You know, like a seat belt violation, smoking where your not supposed to, wearing the wrong t-shirt, those kinds of things.
Posted on 02/02/2006 6:14:17 AM PST by television is just wrong
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.So the first issue to clear up is the difference between "unreasonable search and seizure" and "illegal search and seizure". The bill of rights constrains what the government, not what private enterprises, can do. So, a search and seizure by a private enterprise would not typically be considered a fourth amendment issue in the first place. Even so, the question would be "was the search and seizure unreasonable?"
In the example you cite, you are on someone else's property and the owner of that property can certainly be considered to have a reasonable right to ensure that you are not removing something from the property without authorization. Therefore, regardless of whether you liked the experience or not, this was not even an unreasonable search and seizure, much less an "illegal" one.
The nice thing is that this sword cuts both ways - they're free to ask to search my bag, and I'm free to give them the finger and keep walking.
I have had the clerks at costco grab my cart not me. And pull me back into the store to check my items. I take issue with that as that can be considered battery.
My bet is that at a membership club (ie. Costco, Sams, etc.) it could be part of the membership terms so failure to allow the check could violate the terms of membership or conduct, however at a publicly available retail store you could walk out without any recourse. They could not detain you without showing some cause to believe that you had taken something without paying.
Don't shop there anymore.
The thing that pisses me off is when you buy something and they forget or don't turn off those little sensors on your items that sets off the alarm at the door. Happened to me like 3 times in a row at walmart. Of course you have to stand there and wait while someone comes over and searches through your bag. The fourth time it happened I just kept walking and said if you want to look in the bag you better start walking, I'm in a hurry. she just waved me on.
this check is spreading to a lot of stores.
I do not feel comfortable with this practice. Everyone complies very pleasantly, and conforms. You may be right with Costco, however I will have to check for terms of membership and read to see if that is in there.
You said: "At Sams Club, all they do is count the number of items and check it against the receipt. That isn't like a strip search."
And on at least 2 occassions they have found that the checker forgot to put an item in my cart that I had paid for.
You have the right to shop somewhere else. You are not in your home, but on someone else's property. They're perfectly within their rights.
That does not extend to searching me or my person without my consent - simply being on your property does not extend to you the right to commit battery against someone.
I don't particularly like confrontations, but I feel this is an invasion of my privacy.
And they are making an assumption I am stealing from them.
Verifying that a shopping bag you are removing from the premises does not contain items not paid for is hardly battery. (Unless you are one of those types who considers it assault when someone happens to frown in disapproval when they look at you.)
Correct wizardoz. There was, a now defunct, chain store that refused to let me in the store carrying my motorcycle helmet for "loss prevention". I never set foot in the store again.
Beat me to it. If you aren't at a 'club member' store then you have the right to tell them to give you a refund as soon as they ask to search. They can let you go sans search, give you a refund and keep their merchandise, or call authorities while you loudly explain to all passersby how they should shop someplace else. At the membership clubs you grant them the right to search when you sign the paperwork.
Unless of course they have "probable cause", which can be anything they choose.
You know, like a seat belt violation, smoking where your not supposed to, wearing the wrong t-shirt, those kinds of things.
Excellent question. As long as I are still on the premises of the store, I personally have no problem allowing an employee of that store to make sure that my purchases match the reciept that I was just handed. That procedure helps heep the cost of the stuff I buy down, by reducing the amount of goods that are shoplifted, not to mention errors and ommissions by the checkout clerk.
It would be a different matter if a store employee wanted to frisk me or look through my wife's handbag. Only a duly sworn Law Enforcement Officer has the authority to do that, and only for reasonable suspicion.
They didn't. They were making sure you got what you paid for, and NOTHING ELSE. That's why it's called Loss Prevention.
"The nice thing is that this sword cuts both ways - they're free to ask to search my bag, and I'm free to give them the finger and keep walking."
Correct, I'm fine about searches entering the store, but once I've purchased anything, it is mine and no one touches it. I simply look them in the eye when I leave and they don't bother me, a few times I've had to say a soft but firm no.
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