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Danger Zone - (Haleigh Poutre)
National Review ^ | February 01, 2006 | Wesley J, Smith

Posted on 02/01/2006 7:29:10 AM PST by Ohioan from Florida

In the court (and courts) of life and death, a little 11-year-old Massachusetts girl named Haleigh Poutre could be the next Terri Schiavo. For those who have not heard the tragic story, Haleigh was beaten nearly to death last September, allegedly by her adoptive mother and stepfather. The beating left her unconscious and barely clinging to life.

Within a week or so of the beating, her doctors had written her off. They apparently told Haleigh's court-appointed guardian, Harry Spence, that she was "virtually brain dead." Even though he had never visited her, Spence quickly went to court seeking permission to remove her respirator and feeding tube. The court agreed, a decision affirmed recently by the supreme court of Massachusetts.

And so, no doubt with the best of intentions, a little girl who had already suffered so much was stripped by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts of even the chance to fight to stay alive. If she didn't stop breathing when the respirator was removed, which doctors expected, she would slowly dehydrate to death.

Close Call

Then came the unexpected:

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Extended News; News/Current Events; US: Massachusetts
KEYWORDS: childabuse; dehydratnfla; dontfeedtrolls; euthanasia; flstarvestate; gallagher4guv; haileypoutre; haleighpoutre; justicevseuthanasia; massachusetts; starvnfla; stopflmurders; tedstith; terridailies; terridailiesfeb; terrischiavo; terrischindler; wesleyjsmith
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To: Halls

Thanks Halls!


81 posted on 02/01/2006 12:06:11 PM PST by pollywog (Psalm 121;1 I Lift my eyes to the hills from whence cometh my help.)
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To: pollywog

your welcome!


82 posted on 02/01/2006 12:08:26 PM PST by Halls (Dallas County, Texas, but my heart is in East Texas!)
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To: Ohioan from Florida
I didn't post this article as a Terri trailer.

I didn't say you did.

I think there is enough legitimate discussion around Haleigh, because there have been several news reports that I've read where this is mentioned as a right-to-die case.

Every report I have read has stated she can hold up toys you ask her for and that they mistakenly tried to terminate her thinking she could not recover after her parents beat her to death (well close enough to death).

That was, of course, before they realized she was improving.

Thank God someone had some sense up there to not kill her especially since she hasn't been this way for even a year.

I can't for the life of me figure out how Haleigh's story can be viewed as a right-to-die case. Maybe you can help me out.

I couldn't say and I'm sure anything I have to say won't help you in anyway.

 

83 posted on 02/01/2006 12:12:57 PM PST by md2576 (I have already previewed or do not wish to preview this composition.)
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To: 8mmMauser

You can post every agenda laden article, letter, poem, song you want. This is nothing like the Shiavo case on any level.


84 posted on 02/01/2006 12:26:47 PM PST by Hildy (The only difference between a rut and a grave is the depth)
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To: Ohioan from Florida

You too.


85 posted on 02/01/2006 12:31:01 PM PST by Constitution Day (Anger is an energy)
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To: Constitution Day

Justice would be if Haleigh recovered enough the testify against her parents who put her into this condition. Being pro-life it is difficult to resist going down to MA and beating these people to death. God help me resist that temptation...


86 posted on 02/01/2006 12:37:38 PM PST by seamusnh
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To: md2576
I didn't say you did.

I know you didn't, but because Hildy had directed her comment towards me, I thought you might have been implying that I was posting the story as a Terri add-on. Sorry about that. I was just trying to make sure you and others reading didn't misunderstand my intentions for the thread.

Every report I have read has stated she can hold up toys you ask her for

While that's good, I guess I must have been following her case a little closer as there have been several reports out there claiming this as a right-to-die case, and it has even been mentioned that Haleigh's story is like Terri's. (In some aspects, yes, and in others, no. At least that's my opinion.)

they mistakenly tried to terminate her thinking she could not recover

So we agree, then, that the doctors and the state in this case were mistaken in their diagnosis. Good to know that doctors aren't infallible.

Thank God someone had some sense up there to not kill her

I can agree with that. It would have been killing her.

especially since she hasn't been this way for even a year

I sure hope that's not your way of saying that it would be okay to kill her if she had been this way for over a year. Is there a time limit of how long it's okay to wait before killing someone? Just asking.

Me: I can't for the life of me figure out how Haleigh's story can be viewed as a right-to-die case. Maybe you can help me out.

You: I couldn't say and I'm sure anything I have to say won't help you in anyway.

I'm glad you don't think of this as a right-to-die case. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me.

87 posted on 02/01/2006 12:41:27 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
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To: seamusnh
Being pro-life it is difficult to resist going down to MA and beating these people to death.

Ha.
No inconsistency there, no sirree!

88 posted on 02/01/2006 12:41:30 PM PST by Constitution Day (Anger is an energy)
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To: 8mmMauser

Most eloquent, Bobby!!!


89 posted on 02/01/2006 12:46:47 PM PST by Lesforlife ("For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb . . ." Psalm 139:13)
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To: Ohioan from Florida

Another similarity between Terri and Haleigh is that the same people who tried to save Terri are now trying to save Haleigh, and the same people who disrupted the Terri threads are disrupting this thread. People tend to be consistent. You either respect life, or you don't.


90 posted on 02/01/2006 12:52:13 PM PST by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri <strike>Schiavo</strike> Schindler - www.terrisfight.org)
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To: Ohioan from Florida
I sure hope that's not your way of saying that it would be okay to kill her if she had been this way for over a year. Is there a time limit of how long it's okay to wait before killing someone? Just asking.

It's a tough decision for me to make. I don't want anyone to die. But God has given us that fate, and stopping fate using technology can get tricky.

I think that science keeping individuals from reaching heaven when God meant them to may be just as immoral as taking them off life support.

It's a hard choice to make and I believe that's why each person or guardian has to make that decision for themselves or their family members.

It is our ultimate goal in life to learn, create, grow and go to Heaven. Hopefully Science will advance enough that we will be able to distinguish between someone who will recuperate and someone who was meant to go to heaven. In this case as well though you are stuck with "who to believe" when it comes to your loved ones life.

I do have a question though: How many years can someone be kept alive using machines? With advances in technology I would think our capabilities would keep growing and we could eventually have people who cannot eat, sleep, breath or talk on life support for 50 years to (who knows) maybe 150 years. Do we keep them alive this long? When do we decide our science is keeping people alive on life support too long? There has to be a line and many will argue where that line is and when it's been crossed. Which brings me back to loved ones and personal wishes.

91 posted on 02/01/2006 12:56:50 PM PST by md2576 (I have already previewed or do not wish to preview this composition.)
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To: Hildy
On any level? I beg to differ. The state through the DSS sought permission to have Haleigh's life-support removed, but her step-father argued against that, so the courts became involved in the dispute and gave permission for the respirator and the feeding tube to be removed. Both Haleigh and Terri were designated by doctors testifying in court to be in states of PVS and had no hope of recovery.

In Haleigh's case, they were wrong, very wrong about her state of consciousness and her improbable recovery. Will she be out of danger from having her feeding tube removed? That is unknown at this point, and why I posted this thread.

I find it very disturbing that, with as much recovery as Haleigh's had so far, the state may still decide to remove her feeding tube (or stop feeding and hydrating her). If you read other articles about Haleigh, they say almost the same thing, that the state has decided to not remove her tube for now. They leave the possibility open to withholding food and water from her at a later date, because they have already been given the court's permission, and she might not improve much.

The quality of life issue gets talked about all over again. Is it really okay to hasten someone's death because we aren't comfortable with their quality of life? I'm just not crazy about that idea.

92 posted on 02/01/2006 1:04:01 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
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To: Ohioan from Florida
In Haleigh's case, they were wrong, very wrong about her state of consciousness and her improbable recovery

4 months vs. 17years is not even worth a debate.

93 posted on 02/01/2006 1:15:18 PM PST by Hildy (The only difference between a rut and a grave is the depth)
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To: md2576

I understand your questions, they are questions for all of us. I have to say that I personally consider food and water (and oxygen) to be ordinary care no matter how they are delivered. In my mind that is basic human care.

Karen Ann Quinlan did finally succumb many years after they removed her respirator. She didn't continue to live and her organs didn't last forever. Neither was she resuscitated at that point, nor did she receive any transplants. To me that was the *right* thing to do for the *right* amount of time. I suggest we use her case as an example of moral behavior. God didn't allow her to stay here forever, and she wasn't forced to die before she was *ready* to go. JMHO.


94 posted on 02/01/2006 1:17:46 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
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To: Hildy
You obviously missed the point. The point was not the amount of time, but that the doctors made a mistake about the PVS diagnosis. Luckily, Haleigh may get to have the benefit of some of the tests that were available before Terri's death but developed after her collapse.

(BTW, that was a really nice touch you had there, stretching Terri's time to 17 years...Feb. 1990-March, 2005 sure seems like 15 years to me. Maybe if you say it was a typo, I'll believe you!)

95 posted on 02/01/2006 1:25:18 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
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To: Hildy
You can post every agenda laden article, letter, poem, song you want. This is nothing like the Shiavo case on any level.

Hildy, no way will I try to persuade you on anything near this topic.

I have learned and observed over time it is all for naught. However, when you bring up topics like you did, it is a fine chance for others to see and understand even if you are not interested personally.

96 posted on 02/01/2006 3:08:32 PM PST by 8mmMauser (Jezu, ufam Tobie!..Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: floriduh voter

Dylan Walborn and Terri had the same birthday, as I recall.

Yikes!


97 posted on 02/01/2006 3:15:19 PM PST by Lesforlife ("For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb . . ." Psalm 139:13)
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To: 8mmMauser

It's fine to bring things up for discussion, but to lump things together to prove an end is just disengenous.


98 posted on 02/01/2006 3:32:10 PM PST by Hildy (The only difference between a rut and a grave is the depth)
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To: Alamo-Girl

Alamo-Girl, you are warmly welcome..


99 posted on 02/01/2006 3:33:35 PM PST by 8mmMauser (Jezu, ufam Tobie!..Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: Hildy
It's fine to bring things up for discussion, but to lump things together to prove an end is just disengenous.

And what are you trying to prove, then? Do you want to discuss something?

Others have thanked me for bringing it up. Aren't you glad I brought it up?

I am planning on bringing up a lot of discussions of what they almost did to poor Haleigh. After all any time the State tries to bioethic someone, it is a peak interest to me, whether Haleigh or Terri.

100 posted on 02/01/2006 3:40:16 PM PST by 8mmMauser (Jezu, ufam Tobie!..Jesus I trust in Thee)
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