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To: Fester Chugabrew

No, analogies are not evidence.

I am still waiting for your proposed means to investigate God scientifically. So far, nothing.

" The simplest and easiest test is to determine whether the matter is organized and functional."

Gay jeans argument.

"Faith would not be faith if it could not be tested."

One of the stupidest things you have ever said. Faith is faith BECAUSE it doesn't have to be tested. To require a test for faith is to slap God in the face. Ask Jesus when he was tempted by Satan.

"Faith is confidence in a positive proposition. So is science."

Faith allows (requires really) confidence without testing. Science allows confidence only with testing.


531 posted on 01/21/2006 8:58:54 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
I am still waiting for your proposed means to investigate God scientifically.

As I've said many times, good science may take place when it adaopts and maintains the inductive given that God created the heavens and the earth in an orderly way. So science carries on expecting to find order as opposed to chaos. It may reasonably consider itself to be about the study of God's handiwork, as it were. That is how western science carried on until the "Enlightenment." That is how science may still be carried on today. Casting aside or disavowing this given does not make someone inherently more scientific or objective, because to cast away this given is a subjective decision made by the observer, not by the matter he observes.

In a less certain manner, one may note deductively, after seeing so many cases where organized matter behaves according to laws, that intelligent design is a viable possibility. For such a person, it is simply organized matter that serves as evidence for intelligent design, because intelligent design by its very nature entails taking a substance an forming it in such a way that it perfroms a purpose.

Maybe you are expecting me to produce more direct evidence that science is studying God's handiwork. If the presence of organized matter does not suit you as evidence, then what does? Is it necessary for God to write His name on each particle of matter before the evidence is "weighted" to your satisfaction? Is that what you would expect from someone who builds an artifact, that he would at all times be present and ready to directly announce his involvement in designing and organizing the implement?

Your expectations of ID are unreasonable even for science, and they go beyond what you expect of evolutionist theories. Your bias is plain to see.

538 posted on 01/22/2006 4:58:47 AM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
Ask Jesus when he was tempted by Satan.

Jesus has perfect faith. Satan tested it by quoting biblical texts and attempting to apply them as they were not intended, not unlike certain scientists who think their learning somehow undermines biblical texts and truths. Faith, like scientific propositions, must be capable of testing, or it is not faith.

539 posted on 01/22/2006 5:11:25 AM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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