Posted on 01/19/2006 3:56:16 AM PST by ComtedeMaistre
Most conservatives are religious. But there is a small minority of non-religious individuals, who were attracted to the conservative movement because they were influenced by secular movements such as Ayn Rand's objectivism.
Should atheists be welcomed into the conservative movement? Do atheists make good conservatives?
Shall I saw New Testament principles? We instilled the law aspects of the book, not the grace.
I know a lot of "Social Conservatives" who when you take there moral stanches away, support most liberal positions and want a much larger activist government.I would maintain that "cultural conservatism" as espoused by some of the religious right types is in reality cultural collectivism and is therefore antithetical to conservative thought. Especially when it can only happen when enforced by the government.
Its relevant that the most successful conservative politician of the last fifty years was not a "cultural conservative" at all.
-Eric
But aside from that, there's no pedigree required over here at FR. We have a wide range of people here, and I'd say that as a group, we have a greater tendency to treat with respect people of religion than the DUers.
Hence, there's a greater tendency among religious people (primarily those who self-identify as Christians) to post arguments consistent with religious teachings, and they are generally treated with more respect than is to be expected from the left.
But when it comes right down to it, it's not about a politico-religious pedigree - we have a two-party political system here, and you vote red or blue.
I'd never ask somebody else what religion they are, it doesn't matter to me. If they agree with me on most salient points, I figure we're on the same side.
Total crap. Christianity thrives when its members are persecuted.
From what I have seen, part of the libertarian "faith" is to hate ChristiansNot at all. Libertarians recognize religion as a free choice that people make, a matter of conscience. Their sole problem with Christianity is the tendency of some of its adherents to try to legally enforce the rules of their faith.
Ironically, Christ and his apostles never sought to do any such thing. Christianity as state policy was a Roman invention coinciding with the conversion of Constantine. It has more to do with Caeser than Christ.
-Eric
Yes, you can be an atheist and a good conservative-but you can't call yourself both religious and liberal and expect to be taken seriously.
Can you give me a good example? Even in Russia, while there were pockets of religion, most of it pretty much ceased to exist. Hardly thriving. How about China, or N. Korea.
Are you a troll just trying to be provocative?
Of course. The only relevant difference I can think of is that atheists obviously cannot regard human rights as God-given, but I presume many of them have some other philosophical rationale for respecting them.
Maybe for the same reason people talk about dragons and elves, and other stuff like that?...because it's an interesting subject, that no one can prove or disprove.
Starting with first century Rome?
As a libertarian Christian who knows several other libertarian Christians, I dispute that characterization.
Persecution Causes Amazing Growth in Ethiopia Church
CURRENT FEATURE STORY
by the Editors at ReligionToday.com
February 17, 1999
The evangelical church in Ethiopia is among the fastest-growing in the world. Believers have doubled from 4 million to 8 million people since 1984, the international evangelization network AD 2000 and Beyond (see link #1 below) said. Evangelicals make up 14% of the population, up from less than 1% in 1960.
...Persecution became a "prime contributor to an amazing spiritual breakthrough," an AD 2000 report says. Churches were shut and Christians were arrested, tortured, and sentenced to years in prison during the 16-year rule of Marxist dictator Mengistu Haile Mariam. The church grew stronger and millions reportedly turned to Christ by the time he was ousted in 1990.
...Christians went underground, meeting in cell groups and quietly evangelizing. Thousands of small group leaders taught believers how to study the Bible on their own and to evangelize. Believers learned to demonstrate the power and love of Christ, and to share the gospel with those who showed interest. The cells multiplied and between 2 million and 3 million people became Christians, Greg Groh of the Worldwide Leadership Council said.
...Protestant church leaders formed a bond that is enabling them to evangelize the country together. Eleven denominations formed a coalition prior to the Marxist takeover in 1974. When persecution came, AD 2000 said, "trust between Christians increased; they learned to depend on each other for their very survival. Today they still trust each other and work together. They are prepared to reap an unprecedented harvest."
...The Evangelical Churches Fellowship of Ethiopia is pursuing a national outreach. It represents 97% of evangelical Christians and its 11 denominations have about 7.4 million people. Initiatives include evangelism and missions, leadership training, and ministries to youth, women, and families. "This is the right time for Ethiopia," General Secretary Assayehegn Berhe said. "Our country is ripe for this vision and strategy."
...Indigenous missionaries are bringing the gospel to unreached tribal groups. The ECFE set a goal of sending missionaries to 40 people groups from 1996-98. In 1997, the group reported that about 18,000 people had become Christians and about 100 churches planted. They are attempting to reach 20 more tribal groups with the message of Christ.
...Five witch doctors and their followers became Christians through the efforts of one missionary. The tribal group had been dominated by the witch doctors. When the missionary arrived, he walked through the territory's districts, praying aloud. One witch doctor sent for him after a woman claimed she was cured of an illness by the missionary's prayer.
..."I could not heal, but you could," he told the missionary. He then brought a demon-possessed woman and asked him to pray for her. The man put his faith in Christ when the woman was delivered by the prayer, AD 2000 said. Four other witch doctors and about 500 followers became Christians and started five churches after similar displays of God's power, AD 2000 said.
...There is a growing evangelical movement within the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. Five nominal Christians reportedly began experiencing a personal, vibrant relationship with Christ after studying the Bible together in 1990. They began a Bible study and asked the local Orthodox bishop if they could tell stories from the gospels before church services. Those who showed an interest in the stories were invited to attend the Bible study and began to experience a deeper relationship with Christ.
...The group has more than 200,000 people meeting throughout the region. Orthodox hierarchy has refused the group permission to meet in churches or address congregations. The group does not want to leave the Orthodox Church but to bring reforms and help people move beyond nominalism and experience a vibrant relationship with Christ, AD 2000 said.
...Ethiopia has a rich biblical heritage. It is mentioned in the Bible more than 60 times and was one of the first Christian nations. The rise of Islam in the 7th century led to conflicts with the Orthodox Church, and droughts and political repression in recent years have left people poor and desperate. Ethiopia is engaged in a border war with Eritrea. "It seems the nation has lost its sense of identity and purpose, leaving it divided on regional and ethnic lines," AD 2000 said. "Through all these difficulties, the church has continued to grow and flourish."
Back to the AD2000 home page
I was thinking MM too.
And yeah, it's seems to be a silly (and almost baiting) question.
Christians around the world are undergoing enormous persecution for their faith in the risen Christ. Governments around the world arrest, harass, torture and even kill people for no other crime than having placed their faith in Jesus Christ. Persecution of believers is on the rise. While some Christians in the US have risen to the call and assisted their brethren, most unfortunately have not, either through ignorance or simple neglect. This is a fundamental issue as Jesus said, "And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." (Matt 25:40) This page will look at some of these countries and some of the specific problems facing believers throughout the world.
It behooves Christians in the US to remember these brethren in all things. To remember the tremendous sacrifices that they are making on behalf of the body of Christ. No one really knows when real persecution will come to the US. Many feel it is only a matter of time. Remember this: Persecution is a promise that Jesus made to his true followers " These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." (John 16:33)
Below, you see a few brief outlines of the problems facing Christians in many parts of the world. This is a very short list and should be used only as a guide on how to pray for these brethren. Below, find some links with more detailed information.
China
Let us begin with a nation that has the largest population in the world and has been in the headlines quite a bit at the time of this writing. There are two main bodes of people who run churches in China, One is the run by the State and encompasses three branches,
a) The Three-Self Patriotic Movement - Formed in the 1950's formed by communist party members who worked in the Church secretly. Deng Xiaoping was alarmed at the growth of underground Christians and instituted a state run mechanism in order to weed out 'foreign influence'. It is as much a religious organization as a political one and answers to the Communist Party;
b) The Chinese Christian Council – Formed in 1980 and answers to the Communist Party. And is heavily involved in promoting a positive picture of state run 'Christianity' to the Western World. It is heavily involved in the arrests of underground Church leaders.
c) The Catholic Patriotic Association. Simply a Catholic version of the above two organizations.
It is impossible to discuss the above three organizations without mentioning the Public Security Bureau. It acts as a clearinghouse for intelligence gathered on religious activities and as a police agency as they are also involved in enforcement/arrests of unregistered (underground) Churches and its activities.
The state run Church is essentially little more that a communist organization used to deceive Christians and to report on the activities of the underground Church. Underground religious activities of any kind are forbidden and illegal in China. It is designed to censor doctrine and to control Christianity. For example, it is illegal to teach the Books of Romans and the Book of Revelation in China. The Chinese have a serious problem on their hands if they wish to control the Church. Government statistics say that there is less that one percent membership of the total population. China claims that without the their state run organizations, there would be no Christianity in China. There are obvious fabrications as press reports put just the underground Protestant Churches at around 30 million members and the figures coming out of these groups put the figure at around 80 million members.
A troubling development in China has been the stand by many of the US establishment's religious leaders. Men such as Benny Hinn, Paul Crouch, Pat Robertson, have all been to China and have been praised the Communist Run Churches, some have even supported China's entry in the the WTO. Some of these evangelists have a lot of money invested in China and are seeking even deeper economic commitments from the Dragon. Some of these men went out of their way to meet with the rich and powerful Chinese Communist leaders but avoided meeting with the persecuted Church that is being bled to death by the leaders that these US Evangelists are praising. Some are doing millions of dollars of business with the Godless Communists. These are very troubling developments and it seems that there is a strong possibility that these 'Great' Television Celebrities who lead so many Christians in America are not what they appear to be to most Christians, but are simply making millions of dollars from one of the oldest business in the world, religion.
For a copy of the US State Departments Report on Persecution in China - Click Here
Nigeria
With the implementation of Islamic Law (Shari'a) in Nigeria, Christians in Nigeria have had a difficult time in Nigeria and attacks against Christians by Muslim mobs is not uncommon. These attacks include beatings and fire-bombings on practicing Christians. It does not appear that these attack are state sanctioned. In some of the countries states, Christianity is practiced by about 40% of the population and While 50% Practice Islam. Laws and customs dealing with matter of religion vary from state to state. Many believe that much of the violence against Christians is encouraged by Mullahs who studied in Iran. It is a de-facto Muslim state as it is a member of the Organization Of Islamic States.
Sudan
About 19% of this nations population is Christian and a civil war has been raging in Sudan For 14 Years between Muslims and non-Muslims, who reside in the southern regions of the country. The Popular Defense Force is made of large numbers of Muslim extremists. The PDF is not a government army though is does operate with the government's blessing. The Government often coordinates its attacks against the predominantly south with PDF forces. These attacks include bombings of civilian areas, additionally, Churches are often burned down. Government troops then come in and 'de-populate' targeted areas and the the people are often sold as slaves, some are taken to 'peace camps' and are forcibly indoctrinated in the Muslim faith. Over 2 million have died in the Sudanese Civil War and a majority of those that live in the south have been displaced.
India
While religious persecution is against the law, enforcement of the law has been very poor. Since the Bharatiya Janatha Party (BJP) came to power, there has been an increase of Persecution against Christians. In some areas, Christians must now gain approval from local authorities if one wishes to convert to Christianity. Once someone does convert, various legislative and administrative actions are used to further persecute believers in Jesus Christ.
This is a very small cross section of Persecution in the world from a few of the world's most populous nations. There is harsh persecution in other areas as well, Indonesia, Burma, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia to name a very few. Others, who have devoted a significant resources to this issue, links can be found below.
http://www.markswatson.com/Persecution.html
I hate leading questions.
You may have a successful career as a pollster for Reuters waiting for you.
Really?
Should atheists be welcomed into the conservative movement? Do atheists make good conservatives?
Are you frigging kidding me? You can't really be serious. If I didn't know better, I'd say this is troll speak. As the captain of my ship used to say incredulously as a new helmsman tried to run the ship ashore, "GTFOH!"
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.