Posted on 01/19/2006 3:56:16 AM PST by ComtedeMaistre
Most conservatives are religious. But there is a small minority of non-religious individuals, who were attracted to the conservative movement because they were influenced by secular movements such as Ayn Rand's objectivism.
Should atheists be welcomed into the conservative movement? Do atheists make good conservatives?
It is not always possible to avoid offense, even among the truly virtuous.
A very religious Baptist friend who would means no harm to anyone, quite the opposite, believes absolutely that my Buddhist Thai mother-in-law is ultimately bound for hell, because she is a Buddhist.
But, he is also absolutely rooted in conservative values of choice and tolerance. He just doesn't think there is a heaven for my mother-in-law. :-)
But that is just one persons opinion, my own.
A rather good opinion, I think.
Interesting point. How would you word the question.
Thank you for the link. I'll consider it's contents.
Of course, if you are an atheist what exactly endows us with inalienable rights?
Would You Be a Martyr?
Chinese Christians who were not killed ... were fully ready to become martyrs
By David Aikman
(Charisma Magazine - July 2003)
There is no more significant article or editorial that I have read in any Christian magazine than this one below taken from Charisma magazine. As you read it, remember what Jesus told His followers in Luke 9:23: "And He said to all, If any person wills to come after Me, let him deny himself [disown himself, forget, lose sight of himself and his own interests, refuse and give up himself] and take up his cross daily and follow Me [cleave steadfastly to Me, conform wholly to My example in living and, if need be, in dying also]." (AMP) He was telling them that they must have an attitude of being ready, willing and able to suffer and die if necessary for the sake of the gospel. In Acts 1:8 the Greek word for "witness" is the same word from which we get our word "martyr". (Underlining and emboldening below are mine - PDB)
Many American Christians know that the growth of Christianity in China has been one of the most dramatic stories of Christian revival in the history of the church. Roman Catholic and Protestant Christians numbered just 4 million in 1949, but may, combined, total 80 million today.
Because some people know that I have spent quite a lot of time with China's Christians during the years, they often ask me what has made such growth possible. Could this revival be replicated elsewhere in the world, perhaps even in the United States, they ask?
Over time I have offered various explanations for the Chinese Christian upsurge: the collapse of belief in communism, the corruption and brutality of the ruling regime, the great number of physical healings following prayer by Christians. But it seems to me that these are inadequate.
Of course, God's sovereign blessing is the ultimate explanation. But one quality of Chinese Christians stands out above almost everything else, and that is their willingness over and over again to be martyrs for the Christian faith.
Many Chinese have died under persecution since 1949, especially during the Cultural Revolution of 1966-1976. It may be years before the whole story of China's martyrs becomes available. What we do know is that many Chinese Christians who were not killed were brutally beaten and tortured in prison and were fully ready to become martyrs. They have actually gone into captivity and brutal mistreatment in prison singing a song, "Lord, let us become martyrs."
This is inexplicable to most Americans. Even we Christians, comfortable in our middle-class, suburban universe--free to worship virtually wherever and whenever we choose--find it very hard to connect with such sentiment.
But the fact is, again and again in Christian history it has been martyrdom and the willingness to accept it that has most advanced the gospel and turned opposition to Christianity into admiration for it. It was the Roman theologian Tertullian (circa 160-229), not himself a martyr, who wrote: "The more often we are mowed down by you [enemies of Christianity], the more we increase in number. The blood of the martyrs is the seed."
It is not just that the sight of brave men and women willing to die for the cause of Christ (and not murdering people in the process, as many Muslims admired in their religion as "martyrs" have done) that moves people to their core. It is that the willingness to give one's life while sharing the gospel is itself a demonstration of phenomenal commitment to Christ and the enlargement of God's kingdom.
It was a survivor of communist persecution in Romania--the late Richard Wurmbrand (1909-2001)--who often said: "What a person really believes is not what he says in his creeds, but what he is willing to die for." Wurmbrand for years refused under torture and threat of execution to deny Christ and lived to champion Christians persecuted under communism everywhere.
But it is not communists alone who have murdered Christians. Christians even in our own day have been martyred in Pakistan, India, Egypt, Indonesia, Burma, Peru and numerous other countries. In what has become a famous incident, the American missionary Jim Elliott and four fellow Americans were murdered by Auca Indians in Ecuador in 1956. In our own country American high-schoolers Cassie Bernall, Rachel Scott and others were martyred in the Columbine High School shooting spree of 1999.
Since the beginning of Christian history, with the death by stoning of Stephen, martyrs have been with us, and they will surely continue to be until Jesus Christ returns. Of course, only a slight percentage of Christians will ever have to die for their faith.
But the key issue is this: If we are not prepared to die for what we believe, how likely are we to truly live that faith?
Second Timothy 3:12 makes it clear: "In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted" (NIV). Persecution of some kind or other just goes with the territory of being a Christian. If we are not encountering some form of opposition in our faith, are we seriously living it?
Martyrdom always was, and always will be, merely the highest honor of the Christian life.
Christianity exists in many countries where the government seeks to suppress religion so obviously you don't need government to support religion freedom. You just need brave people.
I haven't the slightest idea what you were trying to ask.
You seemed to be making a statement that you believe social conservatives are hypocrites, but you've phrased it as a question which cannot be answered without agreeing with you. The only appropriate response is to challenge your ridiculous assertion without answering the question.
Again, Reuters would be proud of your technique.
Prayer bump :-)
I think it's a interesting debate.
Think of the history of Christianity. It was persecuted for 300 years in Rome.
My observation is many social conservatives seem to be able to live by their view on constitutional law, yet have great difficulty abiding by God's scriptures. When asked why they have problems living by God's scripture, they reply that no one is perfect, but since they have grace, it's really not an issue.
Yes, I think everyone would agree there is hypocracy. But that was not the question or the answer being sought. The question is why is it so easy to live "consitutionally" and not "scripturally". Can you word it so it isn't loaded.
The ability of it to thrive here in the US has rested with the government allowing it to exist and largely without interference of the institutions.
I'm not religious, though I'm not an atheist, and I am staunchly conservative with libertarian tendencies. I sympathize with those who are religious, and I understand why they believe as they do even if they do not share their faith. I was built differently, built to question everything endlessly.
It thrived in Rome. It eventually became the dominent religion.
If you view the culture wars as being primarily big government vs small govt, then libertarians, who would include atheists, are the only real conservatives. They believe in freedom, consistent with the rule of law.
Actually, the attitudes of "religious conservatives" toward freedom are very similar to those of liberals. The differ only in their specific priorities. Both groups are autocratic when it comes to issues that are important to them. For example, liberals when it comes to gun control, forcing us to dispose of our property as they see fit or inventing phony "rights" for favored groups. Religious conservatives are more likely to ban baseball on Sundays or get into peoples bed rooms.
Both groups are all for civil liberties when the things they might compromise things are not important to them, e.g. liberals with national defense and conservatives with school busing.
That must be why the fundies in this country find "persecution" under every rock.
You don't think it exists?
Around the world? Yes. In this country? Absolutely not. But that doesn't stop Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell from playing that card.
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